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You gotta have soul.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject: You gotta have soul. Reply with quote
Do you believe in a soul? In a something that transcends your purely biological functions? In a place after death?
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JohnMcClane
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A "soul" resides inside the materialistic portion called a brain. When our brain dies, our "soul" dies. So the answer to your question is no.
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ringwormbettie
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have no idea and I don't care.
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exton
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The very idea of a soul is ill-defined nonsense. I don't think it's existence is even a relevent question, in that sense.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thats why I defined it, something that transcends your purely biological functions. Some residue of your personality that will carry on if/when you die.
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exton
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's not a definition - that's hand-waving.

That is, what does it mean to "transcend" biological functions - how can personality carry on after death?

That's important. Otherwise, it's not something that can be actually discussed.

It's like if you asked, "Can people fly? That is, can they jump off the ground and fly around in the air?"
If you don't elaborate on what, exactly, that entails, then no serious discussion can follow from it.

People don't think that way in terms of souls, of course, but that's just because the idea of a soul has been burned into their brains from conception. In reality, the concept of a soul, in and of itself, is vacuous nonsense. It needs more definition if any sort of sensible discussion about it is to follow.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I would think that 'transcends biological functions' is fairly clear, some part of our concious that is not created by chemical reaction in our brain cells.

A personality carries on after death if it exists separate from our physical biological properties and is not dependent on them.
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exton
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes...


...but what does that mean? How does that work?
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Lester
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If we knew how it worked we could test it in laboratory experiments.
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exton
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's pretty much my point.

There's no way to identify it. The concept, in practicality, is meaningless.

You can certainly say that the "personality might survive death".

But that doesn't do anyone any good. If you can't establish how a personality could do such a thing, or why it would do such a thing, then you're just waving your hand around.

Now, it would be another thing entirely if we could establish that it happens at all.

But we can't. We can't establish that it happens, and we can't even articulate what it would mean for it to happen. We've got literally nothing but a whimsical, largely mythological, concept.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
We couldn't measure magnetism for a long long time, did that mean it didn't exist??
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exton
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
We haven't always known what electromagnetism is, but we've known that it exists for a very, very long time.

Fact: Iron sticks to some types of rocks.

That's what i mean about establishing the existence of something. Even if you don't know what makes things magnetic, you can still establish that it exists.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
And before we could tell the difference between iron and any other substance?? Some rocks stick to other rocks, we don't know why. Thats about where we are, some things just feel wrong deep in our gut, while some feel right, these things are not limited to things that will help the survival of the species, we don't know why, we don't know how.
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exton
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
some things just feel wrong deep in our gut, while some feel right


And what does that indicate about the objective universe?

Absolutely nothing.

Your gut feelings can only reliably indicate your feelings - they are not senses, and they cannot be used to accurately observe the universe.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
But if these feelings are not biological then they must come from somewhere yes?
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