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JesusLopezViejo
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:55 am    Post subject: Where is god? Reply with quote
Where is he?

I'm a self proclaimed atheist.

I was baptized, had my communion and confirmed in a catholic church.

However, after growing up, around the age of 15, I was thinking, "WTF? I don't believe in magic or santa clause, so why would I believe in something I have never seen and has never been proven."

I also realized that there are so many religions in the world, many of them contrasting each other. Can one religion be right? Can one religion be wrong?

Why do you need faith to believe?

Faith is pretty much the same thing as "hoping for the best".

Good things AND bad things happen out of coincidence and the decisions you make daily.

I find it ridiculous to claim anything in the name of god.

"Thank god I woke up before I burned alive in my house fire"...

Thank your fire alarm...

"Thank god my bullet proof vest stopped that bullet"...

Thank your bullet proof vest and ingenuity.

"It is a miracle I didn't die in that car accident..."

No...you either were wearing your seat belt, or the impact to your body wasn't enough to crush your internal organs.

Do you see where I am getting at here?

Many people say he works in mysterious ways...

So lets look at the AIDS virus...

What kind of sick joke is god playing on us?

"Here is your free will, now enjoy your AIDS."

Now let's look at the universe...We can't even comprehend the vastness of the universe so how can we REALLY look at it. Does the universe end at some point? I don't think we will ever know.

So to make excuses to why we are here is pointless.

It is the domino effect of history at it's best. What is sad is, instead of progressing and learning and evolving...We stopped short and got stuck.

While we are stuck, we argue and kill each other and really in the end we are getting nowhere, fast.

The three questions EVERYONE is dying to know, IMO:

Where did we come from?

Why are we here?

Where are we going?

Everyone is entitled to there own opinion on these questions...

I will tell you my opinions and maybe you can tell me if they make sense...

Where did we come from?

Well, if we take a look at the geology of the earth. We are able to directly compare layers of the earth with the time frame at which history played out.

When I see Evangelicals teaching their kids that dinosaurs and humans played happily together at the same geological time frame, it just makes no sense.

You see, no human fossils are found in the Earth's layers where the dinosaur fossils are found.

Common sense will tell you that they didn't coexist.

Modern science using several radiometric dating methods tells us that the earth is about 4.5 billion years old.

The only person/people who will tell you otherwise is a creationist or a website created by a creationist. For those who deny this with the old "but a carbon isotope only has a half life of blah blah blah" I have a great rebuttal which we will start another topic for if need be.

So where did we come from after I just ranted like hell...We sure as hell didn't appear in thin air...We sure as hell weren't "created" by another man. I'm also pretty sure aliens didn't put us here.

The fact of the matter is....IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE WE CAME FROM...JUST DON'T PREACH TO ME THAT SOME MAN CREATED ME.

However, in the end, I do believe we evolved from a more simple organism.

Why are we here?

Good question Jesus Viejo...good question...

Well, IMO, just like any other "animal", yes, I said it, we are animals...we are here to reproduce and/or survive ( I say and / or because of the gay community who unfortunately can't reproduce, but they can help carry on the species ). In the meantime we try to kill time by having fun, and make money so we can feed ourselves.

So basically we are here to have sex, eat, drink and be merry.

Where are we going?

This question is great.

It seems like 90% of American know where they are going.

The fact of the matter is...they have no clue where they are going because anyone who THINKS they know where they are going hasn't experienced it or heard first hand experiences from people who have been "gone there", and never will.

People find comfort that when they die, they will go to a blissful place in the sky.

Nobody wants to hear that when they die, the maggots start eating their body until just a skeleton is left.

I am happy that at such a young age of 23, I am comfortable with death...Yea death sucks...but I'm not fooling myself to think there will be pearly gates or 72 virgins waiting for me. If I die, and there are pearly gates and 72 virgins, then great, if not, doesn't phase me.

Why live your life in fear of a higher power...In fear of someone you have never even seen judge you. To me, it is like a bad drug habit you just can't kick.

Be yourself, be a good person, help your fellow human and when it is time for you to go, you will be satisfied with your life and go out a winner.


One last thing, it astounds me that people can't realize that if their religion says "there is only one god", but then they look at the world and see that there are hundreds of god's, then the whole belief system is invalid.


Sorry for the huge rant...Just felt like saying something.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The 'Preacher' comic reckons he's on permanent hiatus.
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Xerxes
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Actually, that prophesy got mixed up in translation. It is not 72 virgins waiting for you in Heaven, it is a 7' 2" Persian.
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JesusLopezViejo
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Xerxes wrote:
Actually, that prophesy got mixed up in translation. It is not 72 virgins waiting for you in Heaven, it is a 7' 2" Persian.


LOL!
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Xerxes
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
JesusLopezViejo wrote:
Xerxes wrote:
Actually, that prophesy got mixed up in translation. It is not 72 virgins waiting for you in Heaven, it is a 7' 2" Persian.


LOL!


Actually, I stole that from Jon Stewart....
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Lester
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Xerxes wrote:
JesusLopezViejo wrote:
Xerxes wrote:
Actually, that prophesy got mixed up in translation. It is not 72 virgins waiting for you in Heaven, it is a 7' 2" Persian.


LOL!


Actually, I stole that from Jon Stewart....


72 virginians!! I saw that.
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emceeMC
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't know where God is, but I don't have to know to believe in him (or her, or it, just to be politically correct).

I myself am a Christian, but am not quite as fanatical as the evangelical set. While I am a Christian, I am open to people believing in whatever religion they want, the important thing is that they believe. There are hundreds of contrasting religions in the world, but one thing is certain among all of them, that there is something out there. The vast creativity of the human mind and the various circumstances of cultural development have led to the development of so many religions.

Where did we come from?

Whether or not you believe in evolution is one thing, (I personally believe in some form of adaption, but not that everything evolved from protocells), but one thing science will never be able to explain is the origin of the universe. What will they come up with, the "Random Generation of Matter out of Nothing Theory"? Although that contradicts their Conservation of Mass Theory. This obvious point of common sense is what inspired the creation of so many religions.

Why are we here?

To lead a good life, in my opinion. I'm not saying you have to convert to conservative Christianity and renounce all joy, but you should try to leave the world a little better than you left it. We have been given the gift of life, and we should take advantage of it, and help others do the same.

Where are we going?

I believe we will end up back with our creator. If I find Christianity is not the truth, than so be it. But I believe the good and bad will reap their just rewards.

You can believe whatever you want, but your haughty dismissal of all religion is close-minded. Your diatribe against religion points out all of the craziest aspects and assigns 90% of the human population into a category of foolishness. In typical atheistic fashion, you focus on the bad points of religion, and ignore the tremendous good it has contributed to the world.
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exton
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
emceeMC wrote:

the important thing is that they believe.


...so you believe it's not good for someone *not* to believe? Why?

Quote:

one thing is certain among all of them, that there is something out there.


What does that mean?

Obviously there's "something" "out there". This planet isn't the only thing in the universe.
But that's not what you mean, i suspect.

Quote:

one thing science will never be able to explain is the origin of the universe.


I'm the almighty creator of the universe.


...what? I can make unsubstantiated and unproveable assertions just like the next guy.

Quote:

What will they come up with, the "Random Generation of Matter out of Nothing Theory"? Although that contradicts their Conservation of Mass Theory.


There is no conservation of mass, just conservation of energy.

And even then, that's kind of iffy.

Quote:

This obvious point of common sense is what inspired the creation of so many religions.


...the tendency for the mind to intuit relationships that don't exist is what inspired the creation of religions.

And this is an excellent example of why "common sense" is not very sensible.

Or, put another way:
You don't know how the universe came about?
Well, as it so happens, neither do i.
No one does.

So what does that mean?

Absolutely nothing. It means absolutely nothing but the obvious: that we don't know.

Your ignorance (and mine) is not an indication of anything other than our failure to know.

Quote:

We have been given the gift of life, and we should take advantage of it, and help others do the same.


Why?

(i'm not agreeing or disagreeing, i want to know why you think so)

Quote:

Your diatribe against religion points out all of the craziest aspects and assigns 90% of the human population into a category of foolishness.


Oh, even without religion, i'd say the vast majority of the population wallows in unspeakable ignorance. Religion is just adding insult to injury.

Quote:

In typical atheistic fashion, you focus on the bad points of religion, and ignore the tremendous good it has contributed to the world.


Everything contributes both good and bad to the world. Every action and event has both good and bad outcomes. Which makes the creation of good, in and of itself, irrelevent.

The real question is twofold: does it do more good than bad? And can the ends that it serves be met in a different way, so as to create more good and less bad?

(The answers, i think, are "maybe" and "yes", respectively)
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JesusLopezViejo
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
emceeMC wrote:
In typical atheistic fashion, you focus on the bad points of religion, and ignore the tremendous good it has contributed to the world.


You mean the good that came out of religion such disapproving of human nature ( homosexuality ), or people strapping bombs to their chests blowing up "infidels" knowing they will be greeted by virgins?

What would you rather have...

A world that doesn't believe in an omnipotent being but understands right from wrong, or a world where people worship mythical beings they never saw and have no evidence they ever existed and use those mythical beings as an excuse to kill or tell others what they can and can not do?

However, I do agree that some good has come out of religion, but why need religion when you can teach morality and law without it getting the same results? If people can't handle the fact that when they die, they aren't going to see loved ones and the maggots are going to decompose them, then that is their problem.
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emceeMC
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
...so you believe it's not good for someone *not* to believe? Why?


I don't judge people who don't believe. I just don't like it when people launch into an attack on religion.

Quote:
What does that mean?


That there is some god-like figure in existence.

Quote:
There is no conservation of mass, just conservation of energy.


Law of Conservation of Matter: During an ordinary chemical change, there is no detectable increase or decrease in the quantity of matter.

Ummm...what you've said is simply untrue...

Science cannot explain something that breaks the laws of science. Science cannot explain the origin of the matter in the universe because it breaks a law of science. So how is science going to explain the origin of matter in the universe again?

Quote:
...the tendency for the mind to intuit relationships that don't exist is what inspired the creation of religions.


You can believe that if you wish.

Quote:

Absolutely nothing. It means absolutely nothing but the obvious: that we don't know.


Funny, the person who started this topic seemed like he knew pretty well. But he doesn't know. Nor do I. We both believe.

Quote:
Why?

(i'm not agreeing or disagreeing, i want to know why you think so)


Why should we take advantage of the gift of life? Because there is so much good in the world and so many amazing people that to not try and live your best life possible is silly (especially if you're an atheist, since you believe this is it for you). And why should we help others? Honestly, you have to ask why people should help other people in life? Because it is the right thing to do, and as people we should all want what is best for our fellow humans.

Quote:
Oh, even without religion, i'd say the vast majority of the population wallows in unspeakable ignorance. Religion is just adding insult to injury.


Again, you can think whatever you wish.
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emceeMC
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
You mean the good that came out of religion such disapproving of human nature ( homosexuality ), or people strapping bombs to their chests blowing up "infidels" knowing they will be greeted by virgins?


In typical atheistic fashion, you focus on the bad points of religion, and ignore the tremendous good it has contributed to the world.

Wow, deja vu.

Undoubtedly, terrible things have come out of religion, what you've listed and more. But a sustaining faith in something bigger than yourself, something that can pull people out of depression, help to guide and teach you, and something that contributes to charities and good works organizations throughout the world. The good far outweighs the bad, in my opinion.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
emceeMC wrote:
Quote:
You mean the good that came out of religion such disapproving of human nature ( homosexuality ), or people strapping bombs to their chests blowing up "infidels" knowing they will be greeted by virgins?


In typical atheistic fashion, you focus on the bad points of religion, and ignore the tremendous good it has contributed to the world.

Wow, deja vu.

Undoubtedly, terrible things have come out of religion, what you've listed and more. But a sustaining faith in something bigger than yourself, something that can pull people out of depression, help to guide and teach you, and something that contributes to charities and good works organizations throughout the world. The good far outweighs the bad, in my opinion.


Sure, but should there even be a scale? If religon is really as good as all that then why the fuck does bad stuff happen in it's name?

No-one has ever done bad stuff in the name of just doing the right thing, so mebbe it's better to just rely on that.
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JesusLopezViejo
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
emceeMC wrote:
Quote:
You mean the good that came out of religion such disapproving of human nature ( homosexuality ), or people strapping bombs to their chests blowing up "infidels" knowing they will be greeted by virgins?


In typical atheistic fashion, you focus on the bad points of religion, and ignore the tremendous good it has contributed to the world.

Wow, deja vu.

Undoubtedly, terrible things have come out of religion, what you've listed and more. But a sustaining faith in something bigger than yourself, something that can pull people out of depression, help to guide and teach you, and something that contributes to charities and good works organizations throughout the world. The good far outweighs the bad, in my opinion.


I guess your opinion wouldn't matter much if a nuke was set off in your state in the name of Allah would it?

Everything we know and love and can be gone in an instance due to some religious fanatics..We can't stop them all and many of them have the means and wealth to do what they want.
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emceeMC
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Everything we know and love and can be gone in an instance due to some religious fanatics..We can't stop them all and many of them have the means and wealth to do what they want.


And how would the world be without the religious charities and organizations that raise millions for disaster relief and food for the hungry? That have counciled millions of depressed and destitute through the years. Who have given hope to literally billions of people.

You stereotype religions. You take the tiniest portions of them and turn them into means of destruction. Your attitude is bigoted. You ignore the good and embrace the bad, no different than a racist.
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Xerxes
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
emceeMC wrote:
And how would the world be without the religious charities and organizations that raise millions for disaster relief and food for the hungry?


You mean like the missionaries that show up with a sack of grain in one hand and a bible in the other? And you can't have any food unless you convert and become a good little christian. Did you mean those religious charities?

Or, did you mean charities like Robertson's Operation Blessing outreach, the one in Zaire? Here is a link. You can find more, if you check in his very own forum here somewhere.

http://www.[/b]skeptictank.org/robem2.htm

Or, the youth counselors that advise and guide our highly impressionable youth during the difficult times of being an adolescent. On such topics as Jesus, drug awareness, abstinence reciting scripture and being sodomized by the "church youth counselor who couldn't quite hack it as a gym teacher and decided to go into christian church counseling, where he could be around his true passion"(Tender young ass) You mean those counselors? Caus, every town has at least one.
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