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Giancarlo
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Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 248
Location: Los Angeles, California

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:

I'd be interested in seeing the logic behind the conclusion that executing someone benefits society more than using them for labor.


In my opinion, I think this form of justice is adequate for the betterment of society. You are not the king here and you don't direct what is logic. This is all about my opinion.


Quote:

If it is their freedom that they're celebrating, then it would make more sense to celebrate the day that american soldiers took baghdad. That was the begining of their freedom. Executing saddam doesn't make them any more free.


Executing Saddam marks the permanent end to a fucking era. It marks an end to an era that man instilled on his people. They should celebrate his death because he was responsible for everything today.

You will never change my mind. Your insidious little snides will do nothing.
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exton
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Giancarlo wrote:
exton wrote:

I'd be interested in seeing the logic behind the conclusion that executing someone benefits society more than using them for labor.


In my opinion, I think this form of justice is adequate for the betterment of society. You are not the king here and you don't direct what is logic. This is all about my opinion.


Only you stated that it was supported by logic.

Don't claim that logic dictates something, when in fact it's just an arbitrary feeling on your part.


Quote:

Executing Saddam marks the permanent end to a fucking era. It marks an end to an era that man instilled on his people. They should celebrate his death because he was responsible for everything today.


No, it doesn't. Had they kept him in a concrete cell for the rest of his life, the results would have been the same. There was no era-ending here at all - saddam would never have risen to power again.

Quote:

You will never change my mind. Your insidious little snides will do nothing.


Having a mind like concrete isn't necessarily something you want to declare loudly. It's like saying, "Hey, look at me! I'm really ugly!"
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Giancarlo
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Joined: 26 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:

Only you stated that it was supported by logic.

Don't claim that logic dictates something, when in fact it's just an arbitrary feeling on your part.


Who the hell are you to claim that logic dictates your opinions? You aren't the master of logic. You're just a walking contradiction.


Quote:

No, it doesn't. Had they kept him in a concrete cell for the rest of his life, the results would have been the same. There was no era-ending here at all - saddam would never have risen to power again.


WRONG! It does. And keeping him in a concrete cell would be letting him off easy. But people like yourself who are incredibly soft on justice would rather see him released. Saddam could of escaped from prison genius. There is no question about that.

Quote:

Having a mind like concrete isn't necessarily something you want to declare loudly. It's like saying, "Hey, look at me! I'm really ugly!"


You are the one who has a mind like mud. You never get anything right. You're extremely arrogant, and I've seen in it all of your postings, erhm, rantings.
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Lester
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Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 3907

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
mulch wrote:
Quote:
It shouldn't matter who it is, all human life is equal.


Nope I see things a little different. I think we can agree on that can't we?

Quote:
*champagne

I'm sure thats how you'll want your death commemorated. Btw, your war history does not impress me, please refrain from using it to bolster your arguments, at least when your arguing against me, I hate to see energy wasted.


Thank you for the correction. You have most likely noticed I am not the best speller on the planet.

Honestly I hope my friends and family get together and get falling down drunk celibrating my life. I have so far live a good life and plan to continue to do so.

Now I had no intention of impressing anyone on an internet message board. I was there. You were not. I saw things that would make a goat puke. We took POW's that were proud of killing women and children. Real nice guys. Think their lives are worth spit? You can have em. I'de just put em against a wall and shoot em.

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Ahh, I see, and you were so impressed by his type of destruction you thought, 'if I can catch a wmv file of that off the web, that'd be great!'?


No guy when we entered the first village inside Kuwait we saw how wonderful and helpful the Iriqi soldiers were to the people of Kuwait. So nice that they found a way for the Kuwaitis to be burried in a small hole. WHo needs to be burried whole? It's over rated right?

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No-one deserves death, no-one. Simple. How many other courses did you fail in college? Just out of curiousity? Did you fail the class on 'moral values and basic humanity'? Or were you just sick that day?


I didn't fail a singel course in college. I didn't finish. I dropped out. I have since done damn well for myself and my family.

"'moral values and basic humanity'" Never had that one so I didn'T fail it now did I?

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Ahh good, let us all live by mob rule. It's not just according to Iraq either, america, britain and australia all upheld the decision as a shining example of justice, great way to start a democratic society.


What mob rule? I saw none during any part of the trial. But I guess you forget that there are laws a human being must live by. Saddam broke every single one of them. Now he paid the piper.

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I have read the bible, grew up catholic, and as such I know it's also big on this thing called forgiveness, and it's never big on human killing humans. I'd like to see a passage where God, Jesus, or the Holy spirit, looks with benevolence on the death of other humans. Do not say Goliath, because he was a nephilim, nor witches, for they are in league with the devil and hence no longer human.


Yes the bible is big on forgiveness. But I am not the bible and I am short on forgiveness. But I am happy to read that you were brought up catholic. So was I. My mother is protistant but my father is catholic. My parents are not over religious and neither am I. I do go to church with my daughter and wife every week and we pray together just about every day.

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I do not say those acts were not equally, if not more horrible, but despite this, I remain steadfast that nothing, no power on this earth, justifis the taking of a human life.


Then what should we have done with him? What about all the scum that rape and murder all over the world. Whats your solution? Mine is definite and perminate. I know it's not the best solution but it's the only one I have.

How do you deal kindness and forgiveness to people who see those traits as weakness? I have yet to get an answer for that.

Quote:
He finally came out from under the thumb of someone more powerful than himself and did what he thought was best for Iraq, instead of what was best for those who put him in power. If that is not enough, what about inherent human dignity? You don't need to *do* anything to get that, you must simply be.


Is that a reason or an excuse? Best for Iraq by slaughtering and gassing his own people? Now please explaine me that.

All forms of dignity he tossed to the wind when he began gassing his own people. Did you ever see what northern Iraq looked like when US forces first got to the area in 91? I do. I was there.

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It is the proclamation by western society that this was a fair trial that I disagree with, but iraqi law does not hold to government interfering in trials.


I must have missed that. Could you explaine a little more please? Seriously I never read nor heard that.

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It saddens me to learn that such a fine drink would be drunk for such a despicable cause.


Again we have to disagree. I have a bottle of Glen Grant that I bought when we first went back in to Iraq. I promised myself I'de drink it when the butcher was turned in to worm food....

Quote:
Then you sir, are a bloodythirsty maniac.
Despite this, you should at least know that it was not him that made you take life, no-one can *make* you do anything, you signed up, you pulled the trigger, I know it's much easier to lie to yourself but don't lie to me, no-one has any control over your body besides yourself, I know it's hard to accept, and I know your mind will probably reject this tidbit too, but you ALWAYS have a choice, ALWAYS, he did not do jack all.

I would think that you would want to hold america to a higher standard then the man whose name you so cleverly parodied, but if not, so be it.


You are right I did in fact sign the dotted line of my own free will. You are very right. But had Saddam stayed in Iraq and left the innocent people of Kuwait alone I would not have had to go to war. A good friend would still be walking on his own legs. We see things a little different.

I think you need to take a closer look at his life. I tried before we deployed but didn't find much. I did study as close as I could the people and history of Iraq. My father taught me a very important lesson: Know thy enemy I did the best I could. Later I did take the time to study the man as close as I could. I feel (my own opinion) that the man hold life in a very low regard. Power is the only important part of his life. I could be wrong I have no idea I am no mind reader (a lousy one according to my wife)

Quote:
I feel for your daughter, that is sick, although I think the analogy between your joy and a childs is fairly accurate, at least she has the excuse that she doesn't fully understand death, an excuse which you cannot use, sorry to say.


No it is not sick. I am trying to teach her right from wrong. I am trying to show her that we you do wrong you will pay at sometime in your life.

Death is the only absolute and I take death very seriously. I am happy that the butcher is dead. I am happy that the people he murdered can rest easier knowing that the scumbag is rotting in hell. I am happy for the people of Iraq because now the healing can begin for them and their country.

Mostly I am happy for my fellow veterans. The mission is now accomplished. the same mission we were ordered to begin in 1990.

Quote:
That depends, did you kill people and children? If so, thats a resounding yes. As for Eason Jordan, ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? It's a new fangled concept I know, but it's worth a look into, since Saddam has never had a fair and proper trial, these crimes against humanity are really just, 'alleged' crimes against humanity, and thats the way it should be.


I have never in my life killed a child. I did pull a trigger on enemy soldiers who wanted nothin more than to do the same to me and my friends.

Yes I have heard of the phrase? Problem is Eason Jordan addmitted to it just this year.

So Saddam's crimes are only eledged? OK please fly to Kuwait City and tell that loud and long. Please by all means do that. Then if you survive please travel to northern Iraq to where the Kurds live and say the same. Please I am sure you'll find people of like mind who agree with you...NOT


Now Lester I hope you are not insulted my what I posted. It is really not my intention. I feel you are a well educated man and I hope we can have some good dialoge.

You would I beilieve, become great friends with my mother. She feels about like you. She doen't understand my anger or disgust. Sometimes even hatred. Sometimes I don't either. Thats why I don't drink much or often. It has led to problems in the past. Never with my family but others. Maybe we can learn from eachother if you are not so disgusted with me. Who knows?
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chevydriver1123
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Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 464
Location: Newburgh New York

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Saddam is dead and payed for his crimes against his people. Good ridance, anyone who thinks that Saddam shouldn'tve gotten his come-upance is a damm fool.
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exton
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Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 2825

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Giancarlo wrote:
exton wrote:

Only you stated that it was supported by logic.
Don't claim that logic dictates something, when in fact it's just an arbitrary feeling on your part.


Who the hell are you to claim that logic dictates your opinions? You aren't the master of logic. You're just a walking contradiction.


Well, to form an opinion, i try to reach a logical conclusion about something.

It is therefore accurate to say that logic dictates many of my opinions.
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PeaceLoveandRockNRoll
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Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 300
Location: Richmond, IN

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Giancarlo, you're the only one making personal attacks now. you always complain about it from everyone else, but even when people try to give some concession to your opinion, you continue to attack them in the same way. And you were complaining about profanity on this board a week ago, and now I see more from you than anyone else. If you wanna have a legitimate debate with other posters, stay and do so. If you can't do more than call everyone else stupid or a liar and swear at them, just keep quiet. I'm not excusing anyone else's actions, but on this thread, yours are far worse. PM me if you'd like to discuss this, I'm gonna delete any argument specifically about you from this thread.

Now, to the actual topic: Lester has a point, I think, that killing people never really improves the world. It will be a moral boost to some... on both sides. And even if it just helped us on that front, killing someone to make yourself feel better is sorta gross. But while I don't agree with Saddam being killed or with people celebrating it, it was a decision reached by due process of law and I'll accept that the Iraqi justice system works that way.
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