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exton
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
IrishOutlaw wrote:

So if you go to the doctor with a headache and he says it is a tumor what are you going to do? Take aspirin for the headache or do something about the tumor?


Depends on whether he actually does any tests to determine the presence of a tumor.
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IrishOutlaw
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
IrishOutlaw wrote:

So if you go to the doctor with a headache and he says it is a tumor what are you going to do? Take aspirin for the headache or do something about the tumor?


Depends on whether he actually does any tests to determine the presence of a tumor.


So the doctors test says you have a tumor and you accept that, but the greatest period of economic and industrial growth in the history of humankind isn't enough to make you believe in the gold standard?
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Xerxes
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
IrishOutlaw wrote:
exton wrote:
IrishOutlaw wrote:

Tell me what it is about a return to the gold standard that you think is stupid please.


Gold has no more intrinsic worth than anything else. Its use as a means of exchange is arbitrary in that sense.


That is why no one has come up with anything like a worldwide system to sell pieces of paper that say you own a small part of some business you have no other interest in.


I thought the price of gold or any precious metal was determined by the difficulty to mine it or it's rarity, like platinum? Am I wrong?
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Lester
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
IrishOutlaw wrote:
exton wrote:
IrishOutlaw wrote:

So if you go to the doctor with a headache and he says it is a tumor what are you going to do? Take aspirin for the headache or do something about the tumor?


Depends on whether he actually does any tests to determine the presence of a tumor.


So the doctors test says you have a tumor and you accept that, but the greatest period of economic and industrial growth in the history of humankind isn't enough to make you believe in the gold standard?


Medicine is a much more specific a science than economics.
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thelast007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="Xerxes"][quote="IrishOutlaw"][quote="exton"]
IrishOutlaw wrote:


I thought the price of gold or any precious metal was determined by the difficulty to mine it or it's rarity, like platinum? Am I wrong?



It would seem that would be true but the usability and demand of the metal is very important. Uranium, plutonium, titanium are difficult to mine and fairly rare to find however they have usability issues.

Value is relative in a lot of ways. I would love to explain but don't won't to go there.

What ever the standard being used as currency it is more important still how it is being used in the system. The gold backing or what ever is used to back paper currency just puts a kind of check and balance on the monetary system that would prevent exactly what happened to our U.S. monetary system when we left the gold standard.

(A quick example: If there is a limited amount of gold and some gold comes up missing or all ends up in one pocket there will be a huge uprising and a demand for an explanation on how it all got there. And that rare to find gold has to come up or else! Evil or Very Mad However if you have paper dollars and the paper comes up missing or all ends up in one pocket all the person has to do that is pocketing the paper is create some more paper dollars because they can. after all it's just paper.how hard is it to make? And then say to you "no no it's right here" showing you the new printed paper dollars. Then with all the new extra paper dollars in the system prices go up and up and up because the person pocketing all the dollars can bid prices up higher and higher for goods. and you sit and wonder "darn why do prices keep going higher?" Sad and "i can't afford anything anymore". Sad no money trickles down to you because the circle or paper keeps ending in one persons pocket instead of staying in a circle. if you complain too much they print some more paper money for you (meaning they lower interest rates making it easier for you to get more paper) and then you feel better but it all happens all over again and you're back where you started. next thing you know a house cost 40k yesterday and 400k today and 1.4mill tomorrow. Shocked )

knowing everyone knows this i find it hard that anyone would not want some standard of backing for our paper dollar : / That's why i find Exton very interesting and I am eager to learn from him because he obviously knows something secret. Question

But moving forward, in reality demand means a lot when seeking a standard to back currency. Especially on a global scale. Some speculate that our money is now backed by oil and our ability to have protection/access to oil. If gold no longer existed tomorrow we would all be fine. if oil no longer existed tomorrow we would have a huge problem.

Better yet if all oil went to the Euro and the price of oil changed through currency value tomorrow or overtime it would be a problem. We would have a very invested interest in the value of the Euro because that is the value we would have to address to get a very prized commodity needed to run our economy.

Pay attention to what happens when oil producing countries switch currency to the Euro and leave the u.s. dollar.(Iraq & Venezuela attempted. Iran did recently.)

( This is a small example of the relatively of value. you see we need the oil to fuel the engine to move and produce to earn more paper dollars so we can buy what we work to produce. People and companies mine all over for oil hoping to strike it rich. No one mines for gold anymore to get rich Wink )

I apologize if I rambled to long. Embarassed


Last edited by thelast007 on Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:44 am; edited 2 times in total
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exton
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
thelast007 wrote:
It would seem that would be true but the usability and demand of the metal is very important. Uranium, plutonium, titanium are difficult to mine and fairly rare to find however they have usability issues.


Usability issues? I can see why you wouldn't want to be around uranium or plutonium, but titanium is a very nice, safe metal.

Or do you mean, they're so useful that they would be inappropriate for currency backing?

Well, i'd think you could say the same of gold. Gold is an extraodinarily useful metal.


Value is relative in a lot of ways. I would love to explain but don't won't to go there.

Quote:

What ever the standard being used as currency it is more important still how it is being used in the system. The gold backing or what ever is used to back paper currency just puts a kind of check and balance on the monetary system that would prevent exactly what happened to our U.S. monetary system when we left the gold standard.


Now, i'm not quite sure what you mean here, and your example was a bit hard to follow.

Quote:

knowing everyone knows this i find it hard that anyone would not want some standard of backing for our paper dollar : / That's why i find Exton very interesting and I am eager to learn from him because he obviously knows something secret. Question


You and a few other people live in the wilderness. You're restarting civilization.

Each of you knows different things and has different skills, but your skills do not overlap with those of other people. You all have skills that the others need.

So what do you do? You trade with each other. You trade the products of your knowledge and skills with other people in return for the products of their knowledge and skills. Or you trade resources that you each have.

Different products are worth different things, relative to each other. One goat isn't necessarily worth the same amount as one cow. So you barter and reach agreements about what is worth what to whom.

This works well. But it's a serious pain in the ass to carry goats (or whatever) around whenever you want to get something from someone else. It's completely infeasible when you have a large industrial civilization.

So everyone agrees on a common medium of exchange. You come up with something that everyone wants (like, say, gold), and figure out how much good and services are worth relative to that thing. And then you trade using that thing, rather than with goats or cows or whatever.

But even then, it's a pain in the ass to carry around metal coins for everything, and it's very, very restrictive on the money supply as far as things like inflation are concerned. So, you exchange little pieces of paper for metal. And, if you need to adjust the money supply, you just adjust the relative value of those pieces of paper, rather than chopping pieces of metal in half. And paper is much easier to carry than metal.

So all the metal is in vaults, and people exchange pieces of paper.

Now, here's the question: does it actually matter if there's any metal in the vaults? Would the results be any different in the metal magically disappeared, but no one knew (or cared)?

No, it wouldn't be any different. Things would continue as they always did, with pieces of paper. Functionally, it's indistinguishable.

And that's because the use of money doesn't really have anything to do with the value of the metal. The value of the metal was irrelevent as well. The metal - and the paper - was just used to represent the relative values of different goods and services, so as to be used as a medium of exchange. The money itself is only worth something because it can be used to obtain goods and services; it has nothing to do with what the money is actually made out of, or what it supposedly represents.

It's easier to get your head around the concept of money representing something 'valuable', but that's not really representative of the actualy mechanics of what's going on when money is used. It's just a convenient delusion that makes everyone feel good.

Worse yet, it ties up the supplies of whatever 'valuable' thing you use for a medium of exchange. Anything that anyone considers to be valuable is valuable because it has some sort of use. Gold wasn't always useful - it used to just be pretty to look at - but in modern civilization, it's actually very important for its chemical and electrical properties. It's a useful metal.

Of course, we might always just use something else for exchange, something that doesn't really have a use. And that's what we do! We use paper. Which is useful, but in very, very plentiful supply. It comes from trees, quite literally.

And there's another step after that. Eventually, we won't use paper either. We'll just use numbers stored on computers. Of course, there are a lot of practical problems with the implementation of such a thing, but i guarentee that that's the way things are going.

If you want to think of money as being backed by something, it's really backed by the total strength of the economy.

Quote:

But moving forward, in reality demand means a lot when seeking a standard to back currency. Especially on a global scale. Some speculate that our money is now backed by oil and our ability to have protection/access to oil. If gold no longer existed tomorrow we would all be fine. if oil no longer existed tomorrow we would have a huge problem.

Better yet if all oil went to the Euro and the price of oil changed through currency value tomorrow or overtime it would be a problem. We would have a very invested interest in the value of the Euro because that is the value we would have to address to get a very prized commodity needed to run our economy.

Pay attention to what happens when oil producing countries switch currency to the Euro and leave the u.s. dollar.(Iraq & Venezuela attempted. Iran did recently.)


Well, like i said, if you want to think of money as being backed by something, think of it as being backed by the total strength of the economy.

And what does that have to do with oil?
Oil is energy. And energy is the absolute most important resource in the entire economy. Without energy, nothing works. And that's why oil is important.

Of course, it doesn't HAVE to be that way. There are other, better sources of energy. But it's going to take some time to change the infrastructure.
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IrishOutlaw
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:

Medicine is a much more specific a science than economics.


I don't think so.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh, well if you insist.

*ahem*
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IrishOutlaw
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:

Now, here's the question: does it actually matter if there's any metal in the vaults? Would the results be any different in the metal magically disappeared, but no one knew (or cared)?

No, it wouldn't be any different. Things would continue as they always did, with pieces of paper. Functionally, it's indistinguishable.


Yes, it would definately matter. If you give me a piece of paper that says I am entitled to X amount of the gold you have in the vault, and I get there and there is no gold, you just stole from me. A few pieces of paper for a cow, bah humbug. Its the same as writing a check. If you write a check and you have no money in the bank, your stealing from me.

Quote:
And that's because the use of money doesn't really have anything to do with the value of the metal. The value of the metal was irrelevent as well. The metal - and the paper - was just used to represent the relative values of different goods and services, so as to be used as a medium of exchange. The money itself is only worth something because it can be used to obtain goods and services; it has nothing to do with what the money is actually made out of, or what it supposedly represents.


You need to think of the gold standard as a checking account, because I don't think you understand at all. There is only X amount of gold (money in your account). Currency is printed up that represents that gold (you write a check). You can't print up more currency without more gold, the same as having checks left doesn't mean you have money in your checking account. Right now we use a fiat currency. To control inflation and deflation, they figure the buying power of the dollar compared to the yen, euro and sterling pound, then they adjust interest rates so that the buying power of the dollar can compete. Unfortunately, our government uses their currency the same way some people use thier checkbooks.

Quote:
It's easier to get your head around the concept of money representing something 'valuable', but that's not really representative of the actualy mechanics of what's going on when money is used. It's just a convenient delusion that makes everyone feel good.


That is absolutely true with fiat currency. Under the gold standard, when you had the dollar in your hand, it was worth a dollars worth of gold. Gold prices are controlled (mostly) by the IMF. So it doesn't matter if your dollar is worth .0006 grams of gold, or worth .0008, it is still a tradeable commodity, because the IMF pays a certain amount for it from anyone. But I dare you to try and pull your wallet out and trade them all the money in it for an equal amount of gold. They will laugh at your money. But, you can take your gram of gold and they will give you money from anywhere in the world for it. Under the gold standard, you could get your share of the gold from them and trade it with whoever you wanted for whatever you wanted.

Quote:
Worse yet, it ties up the supplies of whatever 'valuable' thing you use for a medium of exchange. Anything that anyone considers to be valuable is valuable because it has some sort of use. Gold wasn't always useful - it used to just be pretty to look at - but in modern civilization, it's actually very important for its chemical and electrical properties. It's a useful metal.


It doesn't tie up anything. However much gold was held by the IMF was how much currency there was. Say the US has 200 metric tons of gold on account with the IMF. They can print the equvialent dollars out, no more. That is how much money there is. Nothing is tied up. People are still mining for gold. Countries and companies and individuals are still trying to "buy" (in a trade of goods or services) it up from them.

Quote:
Of course, we might always just use something else for exchange, something that doesn't really have a use. And that's what we do! We use paper. Which is useful, but in very, very plentiful supply. It comes from trees, quite literally.


(bangs head on keyboard at this point)

Quote:
And there's another step after that. Eventually, we won't use paper either. We'll just use numbers stored on computers. Of course, there are a lot of practical problems with the implementation of such a thing, but i guarentee that that's the way things are going.


OK.

Quote:
If you want to think of money as being backed by something, it's really backed by the total strength of the economy.


When I read this part, I figured out why you can't grasp the concept.

You have that totally backwards. Money isn't backed by the strength of the economy (how much economy can I get for $5?), the strength of the economy is dependant on the buying power of the dollar. The buying power of the dollar is determined (right now) on how much people in other countries are willing to spend on a dollar (they trade the dollar on their stock markets, just like stocks in a company). If the stock markets in japan, britain, or the european union collapse, our dollar won't be worth shit. If we were on the gold standard, our currency wouldn't be dependant on the economies of those countries.
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thelast007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
thelast007 wrote:
It would seem that would be true but the usability and demand of the metal is very important. Uranium, plutonium, titanium are difficult to mine and fairly rare to find however they have usability issues.



Or do you mean, they're so useful that they would be inappropriate for currency backing?

Well, i'd think you could say the same of gold. Gold is an extraodinarily useful metal.
No. See the bottom part of the original post that refers to oil and gold.




Quote:

What ever the standard being used as currency it is more important still how it is being used in the system. The gold backing or what ever is used to back paper currency just puts a kind of check and balance on the monetary system that would prevent exactly what happened to our U.S. monetary system when we left the gold standard.

Quote:

Now, i'm not quite sure what you mean here, and your example was a bit hard to follow.


WHAT I MEAN IS THAT THE MONEY SYSTEM NO MATTER WHAT THE BACKING OR IF NO BACING AT ALL WORKS IF MONEY IS NOT BEING FED OUT OF THE SYSTEM. MONEY HAS TO ONLY INCREASE IN THE SYSTEM WHEN GOODS AND SERVICES INCREASE. THERE IS A REASON OUR MONETARY SYSTEM DOES NOT ADJUST WELL... WHEN IT IS TOO EASY TO INCREASE MONEY SUPPLY THIEVES STEAL OR POCKET MONEY. PLEASE READ THE EXAMPLE OVER AGAIN. I think if you can understand that example you might finally see what i am saying Shocked
Quote:

knowing everyone knows this i find it hard that anyone would not want some standard of backing for our paper dollar : / That's why i find Exton very interesting and I am eager to learn from him because he obviously knows something secret. Question


Quote:
You and a few other people live in the wilderness. You're restarting civilization.
you can not look at one part of the monetary system. you have to look at the whole system becasue it is all one. When you look at the whole system you will understnd what i am saying. That fact you don't see where an international good such as oil has a HUGE effect on our monetarty system baffels me.

Quote:

Now, here's the question: does it actually matter if there's any metal in the vaults? Would the results be any different in the metal magically disappeared, but no one knew (or cared)?

No, it wouldn't be any different. Things would continue as they always did, with pieces of paper. Functionally, it's indistinguishable.
I have agreed with this 3 times. The problem is how the system of money is working. Ours does not work propertly. We need backing for our currency ONLY to control the thieves. Read Example again.

Quote:
And that's because the use of money doesn't really have anything to do with the value of the metal. The value of the metal was irrelevent as well.
i agreed with that. in fact that is what i said how ever i will show you where you are missing somethign when it comes to value. That is where oil comes in.

Quote:
It's easier to get your head around the concept of money representing something 'valuable', but that's not really representative of the actualy mechanics of what's going on when money is used. It's just a convenient delusion that makes everyone feel good.
it is needed as a safe guard for the takers. prining money ahead of production and goods is equal to counterfiting money. it horribly disturbs the monetary system. it is equal to stealing out of our hands. you print too much i have to pay more.


Quote:
If you want to think of money as being backed by something, it's really backed by the total strength of the economy.
that does not work. it is very obvious why. think about that one. it just proves what i am saying. if money is made in more supply than the strength and advancement of the economy what does that do to the value of money?? the economy strength is based on GNP,GDP gross domestic PRODUCT etc. AGAIN IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT BACKS IT! We agree on that! IT MATTERS HOW IT WORKS! Backing only serves as a safe guard against takers of money and HELPS with over production of currency.

Quote:

But moving forward, in reality demand means a lot when seeking a standard to back currency. Especially on a global scale. Some speculate that our money is now backed by oil and our ability to have protection/access to oil. If gold no longer existed tomorrow we would all be fine. if oil no longer existed tomorrow we would have a huge problem.

Better yet if all oil went to the Euro and the price of oil changed through currency value tomorrow or overtime it would be a problem. We would have a very invested interest in the value of the Euro because that is the value we would have to address to get a very prized commodity needed to run our economy.

Pay attention to what happens when oil producing countries switch currency to the Euro and leave the u.s. dollar.(Iraq & Venezuela attempted. Iran did recently.)

Quote:

Well, like i said, if you want to think of money as being backed by something, think of it as being backed by the total strength of the economy.
again it doesn't work only proves what i am saying.

Quote:
And what does that have to do with oil?
Oil is energy. And energy is the absolute most important resource in the entire economy. Without energy, nothing works. And that's why oil is important.
are you reading what you are typing? this is obvious too. if i need oil and the dollar is what the world wants to buy my goods i can ask for as many dollars as i want becasue it is the trump thing needed. (also i can have all i need and make all i need with out your dollar and goods. i can go to europe too and get the same. but you can't make all you need with out my oil, where can you go.)if i switch to a currency as an oil maker outside of your currency and you now have to take your DOLLAR to the other currency, the person you are taking the dollar to is going to scrutinize the value of you dollar. and the person is going to look at the value of what you are offering them. thay are going to say... Arrow oh never mind. i give up for tonight. you don't get it. and i need to get a life. i'm up at 3a.m. on a friday night talking about money on the internet. Laughing

But i do enjoy trying to understand your point of view even though you drive me nuts Very Happy
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Xerxes
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
thelast007 wrote:
exton wrote:
thelast007 wrote:
It would seem that would be true but the usability and demand of the metal is very important. Uranium, plutonium, titanium are difficult to mine and fairly rare to find however they have usability issues.



Or do you mean, they're so useful that they would be inappropriate for currency backing?

Well, i'd think you could say the same of gold. Gold is an extraodinarily useful metal.
No. See the bottom part of the original post that refers to oil and gold.




Quote:

What ever the standard being used as currency it is more important still how it is being used in the system. The gold backing or what ever is used to back paper currency just puts a kind of check and balance on the monetary system that would prevent exactly what happened to our U.S. monetary system when we left the gold standard.

Quote:

Now, i'm not quite sure what you mean here, and your example was a bit hard to follow.


WHAT I MEAN IS THAT THE MONEY SYSTEM NO MATTER WHAT THE BACKING OR IF NO BACING AT ALL WORKS IF MONEY IS NOT BEING FED OUT OF THE SYSTEM. MONEY HAS TO ONLY INCREASE IN THE SYSTEM WHEN GOODS AND SERVICES INCREASE. THERE IS A REASON OUR MONETARY SYSTEM DOES NOT ADJUST WELL... WHEN IT IS TOO EASY TO INCREASE MONEY SUPPLY THIEVES STEAL OR POCKET MONEY. PLEASE READ THE EXAMPLE OVER AGAIN. I think if you can understand that example you might finally see what i am saying Shocked
Quote:

knowing everyone knows this i find it hard that anyone would not want some standard of backing for our paper dollar : / That's why i find Exton very interesting and I am eager to learn from him because he obviously knows something secret. Question


Quote:
You and a few other people live in the wilderness. You're restarting civilization.
you can not look at one part of the monetary system. you have to look at the whole system becasue it is all one. When you look at the whole system you will understnd what i am saying. That fact you don't see where an international good such as oil has a HUGE effect on our monetarty system baffels me.

Quote:

Now, here's the question: does it actually matter if there's any metal in the vaults? Would the results be any different in the metal magically disappeared, but no one knew (or cared)?

No, it wouldn't be any different. Things would continue as they always did, with pieces of paper. Functionally, it's indistinguishable.
I have agreed with this 3 times. The problem is how the system of money is working. Ours does not work propertly. We need backing for our currency ONLY to control the thieves. Read Example again.

Quote:
And that's because the use of money doesn't really have anything to do with the value of the metal. The value of the metal was irrelevent as well.
i agreed with that. in fact that is what i said how ever i will show you where you are missing somethign when it comes to value. That is where oil comes in.

Quote:
It's easier to get your head around the concept of money representing something 'valuable', but that's not really representative of the actualy mechanics of what's going on when money is used. It's just a convenient delusion that makes everyone feel good.
it is needed as a safe guard for the takers. prining money ahead of production and goods is equal to counterfiting money. it horribly disturbs the monetary system. it is equal to stealing out of our hands. you print too much i have to pay more.


Quote:
If you want to think of money as being backed by something, it's really backed by the total strength of the economy.
that does not work. it is very obvious why. think about that one. it just proves what i am saying. if money is made in more supply than the strength and advancement of the economy what does that do to the value of money?? the economy strength is based on GNP,GDP gross domestic PRODUCT etc. AGAIN IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT BACKS IT! We agree on that! IT MATTERS HOW IT WORKS! Backing only serves as a safe guard against takers of money and HELPS with over production of currency.

Quote:

But moving forward, in reality demand means a lot when seeking a standard to back currency. Especially on a global scale. Some speculate that our money is now backed by oil and our ability to have protection/access to oil. If gold no longer existed tomorrow we would all be fine. if oil no longer existed tomorrow we would have a huge problem.

Better yet if all oil went to the Euro and the price of oil changed through currency value tomorrow or overtime it would be a problem. We would have a very invested interest in the value of the Euro because that is the value we would have to address to get a very prized commodity needed to run our economy.

Pay attention to what happens when oil producing countries switch currency to the Euro and leave the u.s. dollar.(Iraq & Venezuela attempted. Iran did recently.)

Quote:

Well, like i said, if you want to think of money as being backed by something, think of it as being backed by the total strength of the economy.
again it doesn't work only proves what i am saying.

Quote:
And what does that have to do with oil?
Oil is energy. And energy is the absolute most important resource in the entire economy. Without energy, nothing works. And that's why oil is important.
are you reading what you are typing? this is obvious too. if i need oil and the dollar is what the world wants to buy my goods i can ask for as many dollars as i want becasue it is the trump thing needed. (also i can have all i need and make all i need with out your dollar and goods. i can go to europe too and get the same. but you can't make all you need with out my oil, where can you go.)if i switch to a currency as an oil maker outside of your currency and you now have to take your DOLLAR to the other currency, the person you are taking the dollar to is going to scrutinize the value of you dollar. and the person is going to look at the value of what you are offering them. thay are going to say... Arrow oh never mind. i give up for tonight. you don't get it. and i need to get a life. i'm up at 3a.m. on a friday night talking about money on the internet. Laughing

But i do enjoy trying to understand your point of view even though you drive me nuts Very Happy


So, what you are saying is that you strongly support the gold standard, right? Laughing
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brandal
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
Ron Paul supports the gold standard.

Do i need to repeat that?

Ron paul supports the gold standard.


That's almost like being a creationist, only with economics. I can't fathom voting for anyone who's that oblivious.


Holy shit, i am leaving this forum you idiots are f'n nuts.

this is no point, you cant enguage in a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed.
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thelast007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:

So, what you are saying is that you strongly support the gold standard, right? Laughing


YES Exclamation I have said it everytime.

I strongly support ANYTHING PRECIOUS and by definition to back our currency.

Exton is right when he says there is no difference between the gold standard and paper dollars.

However the reason we still need the gold standard in spite of that fact is.....

we need something presious to back our currency to guard against the theft from the people handling the money.

If you steal paper it is too easy to make more.
When you make more (faster than the growth of production, goods and services) inflation happens. Inflation is the same thing as stealing. Arrow This is how it is the same as stealing. When you run prices up by feeding too much money in the system it forces me to pay more of my money. You steal money out my pocket on every purchase.Evil or Very Mad

You can not steal gold and just create more out of thin air. So no one would be able to put more money in circulation faster than needed.

100% anyone who sees our system and knows the nature of man/humans whould see we need a safeguard/backing. Very Happy
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The problem is that people believe that the private printers of our money, the Federal Reserve, do not pocket the money. They DO! If our dollars/interest from Fed. Reserve Lending to smaller banks went to our government and provided our goods and services we would have a well working monetarty circle.(less taxes too )our circle dead ends in the pockets of the private federal reserve owners and they have to add more money on top of what was kept in thier pockets. (no one can deny this because all the evidence is in numbers and proof in our actual economy. And the fed has never ever had a full disclosure of their information as a private company which they are private)Prices will never stop rising. They put in more money everytime we want to borrow. Not when production, goods, and services increase. They love when we borrow. That's how they get rich and they never have a limit becasue WE HAVE NO BACKING TO STOP THEM FROM LENDING MORE THAN WHAT IS OUT THERE IN CURRENT GOODS SERVICES AND PRODUCTION and no check to notice that they are actully keeping the money. If they stopped printing money tomorrow the whole country would go broke.

WHY?

All the money in circulation has interest owed on it.
If no one prints more money into circulation to pay off the interest they would get all our money and we would still owe them.

Prices will never stop rising. Our system is broken and it must be fixed or it will kill itself.

Lowering and raising interest rates by the fed. chairman is only pacifying a problem that should not even be there.

I could go on and on explaing all the aspects but i don't want to keep rambling. Embarassed sorry everyone
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exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
thelast007 wrote:

WHAT I MEAN IS THAT THE MONEY SYSTEM NO MATTER WHAT THE BACKING OR IF NO BACING AT ALL WORKS IF MONEY IS NOT BEING FED OUT OF THE SYSTEM. MONEY HAS TO ONLY INCREASE IN THE SYSTEM WHEN GOODS AND SERVICES INCREASE. THERE IS A REASON OUR MONETARY SYSTEM DOES NOT ADJUST WELL... WHEN IT IS TOO EASY TO INCREASE MONEY SUPPLY THIEVES STEAL OR POCKET MONEY. PLEASE READ THE EXAMPLE OVER AGAIN. I think if you can understand that example you might finally see what i am saying Shocked [/b]


...i can't understand what you're saying because you're not explaining yourself, and you're using runnon sentances and capital letters and all that stuff.
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thelast007
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 525

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh please Exclamation

You understand.

You just don't want to belive it.

You are now trying to negate from the facts you know that make sense and are true.

You can not argue against the facts of reality with anything that will make sense so you are providing an excuse not to understand.

Give it up. Crying or Very sad

Join the team of truth and reality. Cool
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