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DO you Agree with this action?
yes
40%
 40%  [ 6 ]
no
53%
 53%  [ 8 ]
I do not know enough to have an opionon.(dont accept this, its just a reminder to not jump the gun)
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 15

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
CryxicKiller wrote:
The problems you highlight most often pertain to individual member states, but not the UN as a whole. The dirty arms business has more to do with, again, individual nations, like France. The UN encourages member states to stop this sort of proliferation, but obviously they can't do much to stop it. I'm a little confused now, so I have to ask this: do your qualms about the UN mean to suggest that it has not done enough good or that it has not done good at all? I have the distinct feeling that we agree fundamentally, but we are emphasizing different parts of the problem (that is, I'm emphasizing the successes of the UN and why we need it whereas you are emphasizing its failures, which do exist). Or perhaps I'm wrong in light of your earlier comments, which pretty much called for the eradication of the UN.

They do good yes, no doubt, but it doesn'g go anywhere long run they only deal with quick fix and their long run attempts have been rathera disgrace, adding only more money and power to local paramillitary militants.
Um yah we are arguing different things, but eradication isnt all that bad. It should be eradicated and a new more efficient UN should be put in place, one that doesnt rely on the US to pay the bills. Also one that doesn't limit its power and means of assertion. Then the UN would truly be a powerful force to help.
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CryxicKiller
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
As Al Gore said in South Park, are you serial? On a GDP percentage basis, America does not do as much as other nations in financing the UN. The UN needs the US for political weight. Otherwise, we have been as antagonistic towards them in recent times just as much as you have now. Actually, many of their "long run" attempts have been phenomenal successes. Africa will provide many examples, but so will several other places throughout the world (Kosovo, East Timor, and so on). I cannot even imagine some places functioning without UN assistance; it is quite callous to wish such harm to this great organization.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
CryxicKiller wrote:
As Al Gore said in South Park, are you serial? On a GDP percentage basis, America does not do as much as other nations in financing the UN. The UN needs the US for political weight. Otherwise, we have been as antagonistic towards them in recent times just as much as you have now. Actually, many of their "long run" attempts have been phenomenal successes. Africa will provide many examples, but so will several other places throughout the world (Kosovo, East Timor, and so on). I cannot even imagine some places functioning without UN assistance; it is quite callous to wish such harm to this great organization.


You have hit the pipe one to many times, I am starting to doubt you know what you are talking about. I congradulate the UN on its success around the world, but not in Africa. Not everything written is true. I am willing to bet that sooner or later the Africa troubles will leak into American media, you will be damn suprised whats really going on there.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://www.allthingspass.com/j.....p?catid=14
Its an easy read, nothing complicated look at those articles, though alot will NOT say or acknowledge UN interference. In many of the situations the UN has shown up as the shining calvary and the hastly backed out leaving thousands to die and continuing corruption and murder. Explain that success.
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CryxicKiller
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
We've been through this before. There have been failures, but your anti-UN reaction is "disproportionate," to borrow a term they popularized in the Israeli-Hezbollah conflict. Naively and sarcastically asking me to "explain that success" misses the flipside of also naively and sarcastically asking me to "explain that failure." The UN has had a mixed history, but overall they have been more a force for good than harm in the world. That's all I'm hoping we recognize here.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
CryxicKiller wrote:
We've been through this before. There have been failures, but your anti-UN reaction is "disproportionate," to borrow a term they popularized in the Israeli-Hezbollah conflict. Naively and sarcastically asking me to "explain that success" misses the flipside of also naively and sarcastically asking me to "explain that failure." The UN has had a mixed history, but overall they have been more a force for good than harm in the world. That's all I'm hoping we recognize here.


Their intentions are for the greater good, and so are their actions. I argue the actual success of them. I served with the SADF for 6 years then went into service with EO. I have personally travelled and fought around the African continent with UN, I have personally watched them in action. The actual success rate is horifically low.
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CryxicKiller
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Your personal stories are not impressing, and it would be an anectodal logical fallacy to condemn all UN operations because one or two in which you were in went wrong. Like I said before, you're analyzing this situation from an overly personal perspective. I recommend that you step back and analyze the global geostrategic situation in its entirety. Then you may be able to better understand the role of the UN. There have been dozens of successful UN interventions throughout history, like the Gulf War or the Korean War. Why not mention these? Whether you look at political or military projects, the UN has seen triumphs in every area.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Indeed.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
CryxicKiller wrote:
Your personal stories are not impressing, and it would be an anectodal logical fallacy to condemn all UN operations because one or two in which you were in went wrong. Like I said before, you're analyzing this situation from an overly personal perspective. I recommend that you step back and analyze the global geostrategic situation in its entirety. Then you may be able to better understand the role of the UN. There have been dozens of successful UN interventions throughout history, like the Gulf War or the Korean War. Why not mention these? Whether you look at political or military projects, the UN has seen triumphs in every area.


I DO NOT mention them as I am talking about the UN in reference to AFRICA. Not the middle east, not Asia. Africa, from personal experience and from direct and indirect experience relations to areas the UN have and are currently in, which I might say has been many. Their efficiency is depressing, but I don't blame them completely, as Africa is a troubled continent, and even established Nations have trouble running anything there. The recces I was part of couldn't handle alot of things. But then UN should have a lot more resources then SA.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I realize that the UN is not perfect, and I am not going to comment on every little mistake they have made. All I am asking you to realize is that there are two sides of the coin. The UN has performed both well and poorly. But despite everything, they do not deserve the vitriol evident in your earlier commentary. That vitriol is what leads me to believe that your personal involvement may have made you somewhat "blind" to larger UN successes.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
CryxicKiller wrote:
I realize that the UN is not perfect, and I am not going to comment on every little mistake they have made. All I am asking you to realize is that there are two sides of the coin. The UN has performed both well and poorly. But despite everything, they do not deserve the vitriol evident in your earlier commentary. That vitriol is what leads me to believe that your personal involvement may have made you somewhat "blind" to larger UN successes.


Its made me blind to nothing, larger UN successes are mostly located 'Out' of Africa.
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