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Should government keep secrets from the public?
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Turk
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:40 am    Post subject: Secret Government Reply with quote
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/n.....71211.html
More NSA spying
Why will the goverment not disclose private individuals annd groups that they spy on?
Why does this information need to be kept secret?
There is no need for the government to keep secrets from the people.
If the government is not doing anything illegal why are they so adament about keeping public knowledge under wraps?
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fellfire
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That is a really naive set of questions, Turk. Not even the ACLU is asking for the government to disclose intelligence operations to the public.

What sort of world do you think we live in?
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Turk
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A one set up by the ruling class elite of america.
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fellfire
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The only way your idea that "There is no need for the government to keep secrets from the people." would work is if EVERY government in the world worked that way. But, given human nature, everyone keeps secrets from someone, often someone who is not part of your community.

Since governments are simply a structure to organize a large community, you are obviously going to want to keep secrets from other governments. Since human nature is what it is, that means that governments have to keep secrets from the general populace.
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Turk
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fellfire wrote:
The only way your idea that "There is no need for the government to keep secrets from the people." would work is if EVERY government in the world worked that way. But, given human nature, everyone keeps secrets from someone, often someone who is not part of your community.

Since governments are simply a structure to organize a large community, you are obviously going to want to keep secrets from other governments. Since human nature is what it is, that means that governments have to keep secrets from the general populace.
A public officer keeps secrets from the public that put him there?
No there is no need for public officials to keep secrets from those that he works for. Government secrecy was key in Nazi Germany Stalinist Russia
A free republic has no place to keep secrets from its people, secrets probably mean that they are engaged in criminal or not friendly enterprises.
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Lynx
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hahahah, there's that awesome and logical comparison to Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia all in one breath without using a conjunction! That's amazing.

But you're right. They kept secrets. We keep secrets because, as YOU YOURSELF have said before, we can't trust anyone. Or would you rather us just release the documentation for building our super-weapons? That is something I can actually be afraid of.
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fellfire
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lynx said it all.

Turk, how can you be that naive to think that if we allowed all intelligence and technological secrets available to every citizen it would not end up in the hands of our enemies? Or are you assuming that if we had no secrets we would have no enemies?
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Turk
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
fellfire wrote:
Lynx said it all.

Turk, how can you be that naive to think that if we allowed all intelligence and technological secrets available to every citizen it would not end up in the hands of our enemies? Or are you assuming that if we had no secrets we would have no enemies?
have to keep secrets of national security letters served to peaceful protesters, warrantless wiretapping of peaceful protesters, destroying torture tapes against a court order, profiling of groups of people the government needs to keep secret.
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Lynx
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
We're not talking about keeping illegal or unconstitutional activities secret.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I would presume so.
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Turk
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
So its only ok for the government to keeps secrets when they do illegal and unconstitutional things?
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Lynx
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
No you dimwit.

Lynx wrote:
We're not talking about keeping illegal or unconstitutional activities secret.


I know you're not replying to me, but you don't have to play retarded.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lynx wrote:
No you dimwit.

Lynx wrote:
We're not talking about keeping illegal or unconstitutional activities secret.


I know you're not replying to me, but you don't have to play retarded.


I thought we were, quite frankly.
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Lynx
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can you not read either? Read the topic instead of trying to senselessly back up his lame claim that we're supporting illegal government measures, which we clearly are not.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lynx wrote:
Can you not read either? Read the topic instead of trying to senselessly back up his lame claim that we're supporting illegal government measures, which we clearly are not.


I was actually supporting you, in that I was saying secrets that aren't illegal or unconstituitional are probably okay to be kept, maybe not as much as are kept, but giving people the governments research on biological weapons doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Illegal and unconstituitional secrets should not be kept however, if an agent or agency steps out of line we should know about that, even if we don't know their identity we could still know it was a government we voted in that let it happen.
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