Register :: Log in :: Profile :: Mail   
Pillow angel

Home // Evolution Versus Creationism



Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Author Message
Oolon Colluphid
Not a Newbie
Not a Newbie


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 133
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:03 pm    Post subject: Pillow angel Reply with quote
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....wash05.xml

Quote:
"Even the doctors who sanctioned it agree. Putting a severely disabled nine-year-old girl through radical surgery then pumping her full of hormones so she will never grow up seems horrific.

But they've done it. At the request of her parents, little Ashley X has undergone a hysterectomy, had her tiny breast buds removed, and is being dosed daily with oestrogen to ensure she will never grow taller than her current 4ft 5ins or weigh more than her present 75lbs....

All the world knew was that she suffered from "static encephalopathy", a severe brain impairment; that she would forever have the mental age of a three-month-old baby; that she would never be able to walk, talk, keep her head up, roll over or sit up. Her parents had learned that "growth attenuation" would keep her small, enabling them to carry her....

Rounding on their critics, they wrote: "Some question how God might view this treatment. The God we know wants Ashley to have a good quality of life and wants her parents to be diligent about using every resource at their disposal (including the brains he endowed them with) to maximise her quality of life.

"Knowingly allowing avoidable suffering for a helpless and disabled child can't be a good thing in the eyes of God."

The case is stirring ethical debate across the globe. There are said to be other children in the US who, doctors believe, may benefit from the Ashley Treatment."


Why does one not ask, 'Why would a loving God create this girls illness causing her suffering in the first place?'

No, instead they say, 'God would want us to alter his piss poor creation to make it better."

It's complete nonsense in my opinion to engage in what God would find medically acceptable when you hold the belief that the sad condition of this child was his creation, or "gift", in the first place.
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
What if her mind develops? I'm thinking little girl from interview with a vampire.
Back to top
exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
What if her mind develops?


That's what the disease she has is all about: her mind won't develop.
Back to top
exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think it's perverse to even keep her alive, personally.
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
I think it's perverse to even keep her alive, personally.


Even a whisper of life is worth keeping from the eternity of death for as long as possible, because why should it matter when after death there is nothing but eternity? Letting her die does not make her pain any shorter in relation to that immensity of forever.

They cannot be 100% sure that her mind will not move on.
Back to top
Oolon Colluphid
Not a Newbie
Not a Newbie


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 133
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:


Even a whisper of life is worth keeping from the eternity of death for as long as possible, because why should it matter when after death there is nothing but eternity? Letting her die does not make her pain any shorter in relation to that immensity of forever.


I'm guessing that was sarcastic.

Lester wrote:

They cannot be 100% sure that her mind will not move on.


http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disor.....opathy.htm

I would assume that if the doctors agreed to the surgeries, they're confident that the brain will not become any more developed.
Back to top
exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:

Even a whisper of life is worth keeping from the eternity of death for as long as possible, because why should it matter when after death there is nothing but eternity? Letting her die does not make her pain any shorter in relation to that immensity of forever.


Uhhh. Is that sarcasm? I can't tell.

Quote:

They cannot be 100% sure that her mind will not move on.


You can't be 100% sure that you won't be killed by a meteor the second you step outside.
It is, none the less, not worth considering.

100% certainty doesn't exist in reality. Demanding it is therefore unreasonable.
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
No, it wasn't sarcasm, I just got absurdly literate for a little while sorry if it was hard to tell.

I can be 100% sure that Ghengis Khan won't come back to earth is a spaceship with a sausage dog before twelve o'clock tonight.
Back to top
exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
No, it wasn't sarcasm, I just got absurdly literate for a little while sorry if it was hard to tell.


In which case i disagree with you. Life itself is not intrinsically valuable.

Quote:

I can be 100% sure that Ghengis Khan won't come back to earth is a spaceship with a sausage dog before twelve o'clock tonight.


Well, 12 has now passed, but in the spirit of your example, no, you cannot be certain of that. Statistically speaking, it is highly unlikely, almost to the point of being impossible. But it's not actually impossible.
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It *is* actually impossible, Ghenghis's life has left his body long long ago.

For him to come *back* to earth he would have had to have left it.

Of course human life is intrinsically valuable, mebbe life is not, but human life surely is.
Back to top
exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
It *is* actually impossible, Ghenghis's life has left his body long long ago.

For him to come *back* to earth he would have had to have left it.


If a person who is indistinguishable, in every way, from ghengis khan comes to earth in a spaceship, then what's the difference between that and ghengis khan himself returning?

Nothing, i'd say.

Quote:

Of course human life is intrinsically valuable, mebbe life is not, but human life surely is.


That depends on how you define "human".

Your skin cells certainly aren't intrinsically valuable. You scratch those off every day.

The human body itself isn't even intrinsically valuable. A functioning body with no one home (braindead, lobotomized, whatever) is just as good as a dead body.

It's not enough to just say "human life is valuable". You've got to be more specific.
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I would say there is a difference, if that particular person hadn't been down on earth to die and forge his way through asia with the mongols it doesn't matter how alike he is he's not the same.

I realised this as I wrote it, what I mean to say is conciousness, as in, the mind, the collection of electrical signals that allow us to say, "Why?"
Back to top
exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
I would say there is a difference, if that particular person hadn't been down on earth to die and forge his way through asia with the mongols it doesn't matter how alike he is he's not the same.


There's a difference in your mind, but in reality, there's no actual difference whatsoever.

Quote:

I realised this as I wrote it, what I mean to say is conciousness, as in, the mind, the collection of electrical signals that allow us to say, "Why?"


And at three months old, how much of a mind do you have?

Not much. Almost none.
If you consider it morally permissable to kill an animal, then you cannot consider it morally impermissable to kill this girl.
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Of course theres a difference, one was there, one was not.

Animals will never have self-awareness, people might.
Back to top
exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:

Animals will never have self-awareness, people might.


This girl never will. Her medical condition precludes it.

Plus, future conditions are not the same as present conditions, and should not be considered as such in decision making.
Back to top


Post new topic   Reply to topic   Quick Reply    LVC Home // Evolution Versus Creationism All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Add to My Yahoo! Add to Google

Politics Blogs - Blog Top Sites Politics Blogs Politics
Politics blogs Politics blogs Article Directory Political Blogs - BlogCatalog Blog Directory Top Blog Sites