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Pat Robertson......Does he really believe there is a God?
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Lester
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Military escalation *is* an eruption of violence.
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exton
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Military escalation is the use of violence, yes.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
So it's only in the question after it's happened?
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exton
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mostly.

I can't think of any other situations in which it would be appropriate, but i don't want to rule anything out.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thats stupid then.
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exton
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
how so?
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Lester
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Because the only thing that justifies it is itself, it's like the bible but worse.
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exton
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm saying that military force is only useful when responding to violence. I don't see an inherent contradiction there.
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fellfire
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
When is military escalation not out of the question?


I had to go back to find out where this line of questioning started ...

I agree with exton that when violence erupts, then military escalation may be an appropriate response. But thinking about it further, I'd have to say there is a more basic root statement:

Violence is not out of the question when it's a matter of survival.

If one's survival is on the line (ignoring for the moment all the questions about how it came about that your survival was on the line) then the measures taken to ensure it may be justifiable (again, for the moment ignoring issues of perhaps bringing the danger onto oneself). I believe this root covers the issue of Military escalation being appropriate response to violence and a potential justification for when violence may be an appropriate response to a situation.

Just a thought on the matter.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
When someone else escalates militarily(putting your survival at risk) this is the only time when you can do the same yes? So why do we have any wars at all?
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exton
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Because other people don't share our views on the matter; other people think that violence is acceptable for a number of other things.
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fellfire
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
When someone else escalates militarily(putting your survival at risk) this is the only time when you can do the same yes? So why do we have any wars at all?


Because someone in the equation is not being reasonable or some series of events forced the issue.

I think exton's comment is correct: "other people think that violence is acceptable for a number of things."

As a specific hypothetical, consider tribe A (since we are talking military escalation here) whos land is hit with a plague of locust. Their food supply is decimated. With their survival endangered, they invade (militarily escalate) a tribe B's land to acquire their food supply. Here tribe A felt their violence was justified because it was a matter of survival.

Let's say, tribe A approached tribe B and asked for food and tribe B refused. Is tribe A justified in using violence to ensure it's survival? What if tribe B's refusal was because they had only enough food for themselves and no more? Is tribe A justified?
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Lester
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
No, but tribe B isn't justified either, they should all starve a little in the hopes that they will all live a lot.
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fellfire
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
No, but tribe B isn't justified either, they should all starve a little in the hopes that they will all live a lot.


Alright, let me ask this question:

"Is tribe A ever justified in using violence for the sake of the tribe's survival?"
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Xerxes
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here is your Pat Robertson "Quote of the Day":

"When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christians and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. `What do you mean?' the media challenged me. `You're not going to bring atheists into the government? How dare you maintain that those who believe in the Judeo Christian values are better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?' My simple answer is, `Yes, they are.'"
--from Pat Robertson's "The New World Order," page 218.
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