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Papers That Called For Clinton To Resign Are Silent on Bush
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Giancarlo
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
JesusLopezViejo wrote:
Giancarlo wrote:
JesusLopezViejo wrote:

We all have different views. Learn to accept.


Why don't you and stop being such a hypocrite? Follow your own advice, please.


I'm still trying to figure out where we went wrong...

Was it that Saddam argument we just had in that other thread that got you going?


I gotta go. I have the movies to get to. Blood Diamond. Ought to be good.
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JesusLopezViejo
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Giancarlo wrote:
JesusLopezViejo wrote:
Giancarlo wrote:
JesusLopezViejo wrote:

We all have different views. Learn to accept.


Why don't you and stop being such a hypocrite? Follow your own advice, please.


I'm still trying to figure out where we went wrong...

Was it that Saddam argument we just had in that other thread that got you going?


I gotta go. I have the movies to get to. Blood Diamond. Ought to be good.


Saw it, great movie, enjoy...
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JesusLopezViejo
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Giancarlo wrote:
Joe Wilson himself was not honest, and lied about what actually happened. Now I don't know much about the following source, but when I have time later I'll post more. Joe Wilson himself may have been behind the leaking of his wife's identity.

Ridiculous indeed.

http://www.aim.org/media_monitor/3879_0_2_0_C/

One of the fascinating questions about the Valerie Plame affair is why Joseph Wilson lied about his wife's role in sending him on that mission to investigate the Iraq-uranium link. In his own book, ironically titled, The Politics of Truth, Wilson admits that if she played such a role, that might be a violation of federal nepotism laws. Of course, the special prosecutor is not investigating that. But Herbert Romerstein, a former professional staff member of the House Intelligence Committee, says there is another reason. And that is that her involvement in sending her husband on a CIA mission to Africa meant that when Wilson went public about it, foreign intelligence services would investigate all of his family members for possible CIA connections. Those intelligence services would not simply assume that he went on the mission because he was a former diplomat. They would investigate his wife. And that would inevitably lead to unraveling the facts about Valerie Wilson, or Valerie Plame, and her involvement with the CIA.

As Romerstein put it in an article for Human Events, when answering the question about who really exposed Wilson's wife, "The culprit was Joe Wilson…with some help from his wife."

He wrote, "When Wilson wrote an op-ed in The New York Times in July [2003] and revealed that he had gone to Niger on a CIA assignment, he called attention to his wife. CIA people who are really undercover are very careful about not identifying themselves or their families with the agency. They wait until their children are old enough to keep their mouths shut before revealing, even to them, that they are CIA officers. Wilson listed his wife's maiden name in the biography he put on the web site of the Middle East Institute."


Joe Wilson responded to those claims:

Quote:
Wilson's response to the claims

According to another "exclusive" posted on the blog WorldNetDaily––which appears as a featured link on the John Batchelor Show website––Wilson demanded through his lawyer that Vallely retract these allegations, calling them "patently false":

Ambassador Joseph Wilson's attorney is demanding Maj. Gen. Paul Vallely retract a statement he made to WND that the man at the center of the CIA leak case "outed" his own wife as a CIA employee in conversations more than a year before her identity was revealed in a syndicated column.

A demand letter was sent by Christopher Wolf, partner at Proskauer Rose LLP and counsel for Wilson, to both Vallely and WND tonight.

It disputes Vallely's claim that Wilson mentioned Valerie Plame's status with the CIA in conversations in 2002 in the Fox News Channel's "green room" in Washington as they waited to appear as analysts.

"As you know, that assertion and the claim that Ambassador Wilson revealed to you or to anyone that his wife worked for the CIA is patently false, and subjects you and anyone publishing your statements to legal liability," states the letter.

It continues: "We are writing to demand that you immediately retract the assertion attributed to you and to insist that you stop making the false allegation. In addition, we request that you identify all persons or entitites (sic) to whom you made any claim that Ambassador Wilson revealed his wife's employment at the CIA to you."[57]

According to Farah and Moore, "The e-mail received by WND included earlier comments by Wilson to his attorney":

"This is slanderous," Wilson wrote. "I never appeared on tv before at least July 2002 and only saw him maybe twice in the green room at FOX. Vallely is a retired general and this is a bald faced lie. Can we sue? This is not he said/he said, since I never laid eyes on him till several months after he alleges I spoke to him about my wife."[57]

Subsequently, in media appearances and via online posts by Art Moore in WorldNetDaily, General Vallely revised the number of times that he claimed to have met and spoken with Wilson specifically about his wife's "employment" for the CIA (yet still not her specific status as a NOC) to only "one occasion." Wilson vigorously disputed the General's claims regarding any such conversation touching on his wife's "employment".[58]

According to John Batchelor's own post on the blog RedState on November 6, 2005, Lt. General Tom McInerney (USAF Retired) said that Joe Wilson also "boasted" about his wife's job with the CIA to him while they were waiting in the green room at FOX News.[59] Wilson has also labeled these further claims "slanderous," while serving notice of possible legal repercussions on Vallely, McInerney, and WorldNetDaily. Again following Vallely's lead, after being threatened with legal action by Wilson's lawyer, in his own various later media appearances, McInerney has also backed away from initial impressions that he gave that he himself also had experiences in conversations with Wilson that supported his friend Vallely's claims. According to the investigation by Media Matters, contradicting such allegations by Batchelor on his radio show, it has become clear that he did not have any such firsthand experience of his own pertaining to Wilson's wife's "employment".[58]
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Giancarlo
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
And Joe Wilson is more credible how? The man has a short temper from what I have heard, and is generally irrational.
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JesusLopezViejo
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Giancarlo wrote:
And Joe Wilson is more credible how? The man has a short temper from what I have heard, and is generally irrational.


The whole thing stinks...From US relying on forged documents showing yellow cake uranium purchases from Africa, to Wilson saying there was no yellow cake, to Wilson speaking out about the lack of evidence only to have his wifes identity leaked...

I guess we each can draw our own conclusions.

I think we all want to believe there was WMD in Iraq so that it will make the war make sense.
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Giancarlo
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
JesusLopezViejo wrote:
Giancarlo wrote:
And Joe Wilson is more credible how? The man has a short temper from what I have heard, and is generally irrational.


The whole thing stinks...From US relying on forged documents showing yellow cake uranium purchases from Africa, to Wilson saying there was no yellow cake, to Wilson speaking out about the lack of evidence only to have his wifes identity leaked...

I guess we each can draw our own conclusions.

I think we all want to believe there was WMD in Iraq so that it will make the war make sense.


Who can I trust? I don't trust Wilson here. Obviously I do think he was the one who was behind the leak himself. Nonetheless, WMDs weren't my reasoning for supporting the removal, and execution of Saddam.

But don't get me wrong. There is something seriously wrong with how this war has been managed.
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exton
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Giancarlo wrote:

Who can I trust? I don't trust Wilson here. Obviously I do think he was the one who was behind the leak himself.


Why?
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JesusLopezViejo
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
Giancarlo wrote:

Who can I trust? I don't trust Wilson here. Obviously I do think he was the one who was behind the leak himself.


Why?


He is banned.

I had to do it, he began trolling up the board. Which is not what we are here for...Then he began sending me private messages about how I was insulting him, when really, we were just debating...He "threatened" to leave multiple times, so I just helped him out Wink
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PeaceLoveandRockNRoll
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
JesusLopezViejo wrote:
exton wrote:
Giancarlo wrote:

Who can I trust? I don't trust Wilson here. Obviously I do think he was the one who was behind the leak himself.


Why?


He is banned.

I had to do it, he began trolling up the board. Which is not what we are here for...Then he began sending me private messages about how I was insulting him, when really, we were just debating...He "threatened" to leave multiple times, so I just helped him out Wink
good moves. i was gonna ask you about that.
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TheGreatNeoCon
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
jusdeadphunky wrote:
reporters are too afraid to report things critical of this president. look at what happens everytime they do...bush goes and threatens them. it is bullshit.

know how hitler won over the masses?
he controlled the media.


Are you serious? Afraid to report things critical of this President? I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.
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joeyjock
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You can disagree all you want to but the truth is that this administration as far as dealing with the press goes relies on intimidation...you want acess you better play the game or you're gonna get smeared
Right down the line...
Look at Helen Thomas...as soon as they got in she was thrown to the back of the room
they started paying for news items to be run ..remember?
and then we had a series of strange people in the press room...Jeff Gannon???
a former male escort???
and you're surprised that they put the word out on Valerie Plame?...with this crew I'd be shoucked if they didn't
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TheGreatNeoCon
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
joeyjock wrote:
You can disagree all you want to but the truth is that this administration as far as dealing with the press goes relies on intimidation...you want acess you better play the game or you're gonna get smeared
Right down the line...
Look at Helen Thomas...as soon as they got in she was thrown to the back of the room
they started paying for news items to be run ..remember?
and then we had a series of strange people in the press room...Jeff Gannon???
a former male escort???
and you're surprised that they put the word out on Valerie Plame?...with this crew I'd be shoucked if they didn't


I don't agree with the Helen Thomas comment. I've watched many of these press briefings wether on CNN, FNC, or off of the whitehouse website and she is hardly in the back of the room. Maybe you have seen her in the back, but I haven't so I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Secondly, I wasn't more or less disagreeing with Bush "intimidating" the media because that is a series of back and forth arguments that really isn't worth having...Frankly I wouldn't blame any administration democrat or republican for being a little harsh with the media because the fact is while we need media watchdogs we also need some to hold the media accountable for bogus or misleading stories. I was disagreeing with the comment "the media is too afraid to report things critical to the President." To me this is WAAAAYYYYY off base. They are critical of the President every single day. That can't be argued. Now maybe they aren't "critical enough" for some who hate him and think the worst, but it's not even a debate as to wether or not they will report critical pieces on the Bush administration.

The Plame issue is something else completely. A debate for another time.
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joeyjock
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Getting back to original question does what Bush has done to the American view in the world on a grand scheme and what he has done to the entire fabric of our gov't even compare infinitesimally to what Clinton did?
and look at the difference in the amount of media coverage, the way pundits talk and the general feeling of complete shut down when someone even peeps a derogatory word of this man

It's not the Helen Thomas' that get put to the back of the room it's the wholesale shut down of information from the White House if you say something any more probing than how was your day Mr President

and I'd like to hear what some of you conservatives call liberal bias in the media...
because there AIN'T any
if anything there is a constant bias toward the President and his policies...
it's one of the reasons we got into this mess because everyone was afraid to say Boo
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