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Man tests faith against river; the river wins
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Lester
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If a rational christian doesn't take the bible seriously then is he really a christian? If he does, is he really rational?
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PeaceLoveandRockNRoll
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
His_Princess wrote:
I also believe that most of the stories in the Bible were used as you say. However I think that the miracles that Jesus performed did happen.


These two sentences blatantly contradict each other. I was saying that the apostles (or whoever, again, we only have copies from centuries later) said that Jesus walked on water or turned water into wine or cured blindness or brought a man back from the dead as a symbol for the power of his words and his faith, and that the stories aren't literal events that happened.

If you can show me a proven instance in recorded history in which someone has done something completely <b><i>impossible</b></i>, not merely unlikely, through the power of his or her faith, I'll concede your right to somehow treat the New Testament as some sort of alternately postulated system of physics in which God breaks rules. But I did some research on this for a debate once, and saw that while you can occasionally see positive results of prayer in the case of unlikely events occuring, especially in the field of medicine, the physically impossible never happens. Seems like an odd coincidence if it's all part of a divine plan, but it isn't my job to tell you what to believe.

Oh, a citation, and a particularly enjoyable one I might add:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com
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CryxicKiller
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
His_Princess wrote:
I also believe that most of the stories in the Bible were used as you say. However I think that the miracles that Jesus performed did happen. Iím also interested to say that youíre asking me not to use my religion to defend a situation that is all about religion. The point of the person who was trying to walk on water and failed he was trying to show faith. Others were criticizing him so yes I used Biblical situations and such to defend on what he was trying to do and why he failed to do so, because I figured that would be appropriate since the situation it self was all about religion and faith. Using scientifical fact and what if its possible or not to criticize a religious situation isnít fair in my opinion. I do understand why people would since they them selves arenít Christian so that is all they know/use/believe whatever. I think this is all I am really going to say in this situation.


We know the context behind the action; no need to refresh anyone. Why are you not blaming that person for showing poor judgment, if not being an outright idiot? Your statements are fine and dandy in a fine and dandy world, but in this world, actions lead to consequences. Imagine if a loved one of yours had attempted that feat; would you explain the event away in terms of that person's faith? I certainly hope not. I hope you would have tried to stop the individual, then given him or her a good hard slap in the face for daring to try something so moronic. Faith does not excuse action, and often it exacerbates it for the worse. If it is a life and death situation, I would hope (nay pray!) that you defer to those "scientifical" facts, for the good of yourself and everyone around you.
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exton
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
If a rational christian doesn't take the bible seriously then is he really a christian? If he does, is he really rational?


You don't have to believe the bible to be a christian. All you have to do is believe that jesus is your lord and savior.
The fact that the bible describes what some christians believe is irrelevent.

And believing that jesus is your lord and savior is pretty irrational in and of itself, but not nearly as much so as believing in the bible.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
Lester wrote:
If a rational christian doesn't take the bible seriously then is he really a christian? If he does, is he really rational?


You don't have to believe the bible to be a christian. All you have to do is believe that jesus is your lord and savior.
The fact that the bible describes what some christians believe is irrelevent.

And believing that jesus is your lord and savior is pretty irrational in and of itself, but not nearly as much so as believing in the bible.


Nuh-uh, Christians deny that Manson was a christian, and he believed that.
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exton
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:

Nuh-uh, Christians deny that Manson was a christian, and he believed that.


Some christians are prone to those sorts of ridiculous conclusions; they believe that, if someone disagrees with one of their beliefs, that that someone must not be a christian. This is obviously not true.

Example: radical protestants often claim that catholics are not christians.
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PeaceLoveandRockNRoll
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Location: Richmond, IN

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
Lester wrote:

Nuh-uh, Christians deny that Manson was a christian, and he believed that.


Some christians are prone to those sorts of ridiculous conclusions; they believe that, if someone disagrees with one of their beliefs, that that someone must not be a christian. This is obviously not true.

Example: radical protestants often claim that catholics are not christians.
I think it was in "agnostic xmas" but I'm pretty sure I saw His_Princess say "christians and catholics." Rolling Eyes
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Oolon Colluphid
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
Lester wrote:

Nuh-uh, Christians deny that Manson was a christian, and he believed that.


Some christians are prone to those sorts of ridiculous conclusions; they believe that, if someone disagrees with one of their beliefs, that that someone must not be a christian. This is obviously not true.

Example: radical protestants often claim that catholics are not christians.


The old "no true scotsman" fallacy!!
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exton
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
PeaceLoveandRockNRoll wrote:
I think it was in "agnostic xmas" but I'm pretty sure I saw His_Princess say "christians and catholics." Rolling Eyes


Probably. So you see what i'm talking about.
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chevydriver1123
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I love natural selection, it weeds out the idiots
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Docsmitter
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Location: CA LE FOR NYE YAY

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:45 am    Post subject: Re: Man tests faith against river; the river wins Reply with quote
exton wrote:
Quote:
(August 2006, Libreville, Gabon) In August, a congregation's 35-year old pastor insisted one could literally walk on water, if only one had enough faith. Big and bold was his speech. He extolled the heavenly power possessed by a faithful man with such force that he may well have convinced himself.

Whether or not he believed in his heart, his sermons left room for only shame should he leave his own faith untested. Thus, the pastor set out to walk across a major estuary (a wide part of a river), the path of a 20-minute ferry ride. But the man could not swim.


If you're wondering: yes, this is a darwin award.

http://www.darwinawards.com/da.....06-02.html


Darwin Awards pwn. My Favorite is the car with the jet engine.
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mckmatt
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Joined: 28 Mar 2007
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Location: VA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Do you not recall in the temptation story when The devil told Jesus to jump off the pinacle and let God catch him? What did he say , Thou Shalt not tempt the Lord thy God? If the preacher needed to get across the water for some real reason then His faith might have worked but God in no respecter of persons and people hear Preacher or Pastor and they think they are all the same, You just have to be careful what you do because that was a perfect time for the devil to make a fool out of "THE PREACHER THAT "BELIEVED"IN GOD"
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