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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:56 am    Post subject: makes a whole lot of sense Reply with quote
Yahoo! News
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Amnesty: Watchdog needed for Israel

By STEVE WEIZMAN, Associated Press Writer2 hours, 50 minutes ago

Amnesty International marked 40 years since the outbreak of the 1967 Middle East war with a call for Israel to dismantle West Bank settlements and roadblocks, for the Palestinians to end attacks on Israeli civilians and for the international community to monitor both sides.

"For 40 years, the international community has failed adequately to address the Israeli-Palestinian problem; it cannot, must not, wait another 40 years to do so," Amnesty regional director Malcolm Smart said in a statement accompanying a special Amnesty report released Monday, entitled "Enduring Occupation."

Since the outbreak of the current wave of Palestinian-Israeli violence in 2000, about 4,330 people have been killed on the Palestinian side and 1,111 on the Israeli side. Amnesty said human rights violations by both sides highlighted the need for an international watchdog.

"Amnesty International is calling for the urgent deployment of an effective international human rights monitoring mechanism to monitor compliance by both parties ... with their obligations under international law," it said.

Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said Israel already had sufficient oversight built into its own systems, and that it "is the only Middle Eastern country where human rights are at the center of our political culture."

Raji Sourani, head of the Gaza-based Palestinian Center for Human Rights said what was needed was a peacekeeping force, rather than monitors with no mandate to intervene, citing a six-nation monitoring group deployed in 1994 in the West Bank town of Hebron as an example of passive observers.

"We are calling for international protection forces," he said. "We have experienced monitoring in Hebron and elsewhere. It is not effective at all. It's shown to be impractical."

Israel defeated three Arab armies in the Six-Day War, which erupted on June 5, 1967, putting it in control today of about 3.5 million Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and east Jerusalem.

Israeli troops and settlers pulled out of Gaza in 2005, but the Israeli military still keeps a tight grip on Palestinian movement there.

In the West Bank, Israel is building a network of walls, trenches and barbed-wire fences it says is meant to keep out attackers, but which puts some 8.5 percent of Palestinian land on the "Israeli" side.

The Amnesty report called on Israel to "lift the regime" of blockades and other restrictions, including the "fence/wall inside the West Bank."

It also appealed to Palestinian militants "to end immediately attacks on civilians and on the Palestinian Authority to take effective action to stop and prevent such attacks and bring to justice those responsible."

Copyright © 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I get that newsletter.

w00t amnesty international.
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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
I get that newsletter.

w00t amnesty international.


that is all LVC has to say about this...wOOt amnesty international? that is so weak.
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fellfire
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
What do you expect to be said? Is Amnesty International saying anything different then what so many others have said?

"Israel: stop building new settlements and more wall; take down the wall you have already built and dismantle the settlements. Palestine: Stop shooting rockets at Israeli settlements, stop blowing yourself (and other things) up in terrorist bombings and, oh by the by, stop shooting yourselves too, while you are at it."

There, now I called for it too, does that make you feel better about LVC?

I mean, if Amnesty International put on a concert with B-list celebrities with malfunctioning wardrobe then maybe that would be different. The message would be the same old tired message that we have all heard and that the Israelis and Palestinians have ignored for decades now.

If the people who live there don't give enough of a fuck about what's happening around them to stop it, then why should I? Puhleeaze ... wake me when the mushroom clouds start forming.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Because despite them not giving a fuck they *are* still people.
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fellfire
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
Because despite them not giving a fuck they *are* still people.


Yes, they are people. Because of that, I afford them unalienable rights to screw themselves over as much as they want as long as that said screwage does not impact me or mine. Unless you are going to claim that they are all mentally deficient then by what right do you think you have to tell them what to do?

If you were king of the world for a day, do you think you have the right to dictate what Palestine and Israel will do to live in peace? Is this a case where Authoritarian rule is justified?
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Lester
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You asked why you should give a fuck, I gave you a reason, I didn't say anything about forcing them to do something.
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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
fellfire wrote:
Lester wrote:
Because despite them not giving a fuck they *are* still people.


Yes, they are people. Because of that, I afford them unalienable rights to screw themselves over as much as they want as long as that said screwage does not impact me or mine. Unless you are going to claim that they are all mentally deficient then by what right do you think you have to tell them what to do?

If you were king of the world for a day, do you think you have the right to dictate what Palestine and Israel will do to live in peace? Is this a case where Authoritarian rule is justified?


well the u.s. dictates what the rights the palestinians are allowed to be denied, so you should give a fuck.
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fellfire
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
jusdeadphunky wrote:
fellfire wrote:
Lester wrote:
Because despite them not giving a fuck they *are* still people.


Yes, they are people. Because of that, I afford them unalienable rights to screw themselves over as much as they want as long as that said screwage does not impact me or mine. Unless you are going to claim that they are all mentally deficient then by what right do you think you have to tell them what to do?

If you were king of the world for a day, do you think you have the right to dictate what Palestine and Israel will do to live in peace? Is this a case where Authoritarian rule is justified?


well the u.s. dictates what the rights the palestinians are allowed to be denied, so you should give a fuck.


That's a nice sound bite, but it has no validity in reality. The US has no troops in Palestine and none in Israel. The US does not control the Israel Knesset or the Palestinian Authority Parliament.

So when you can come up with something real rather then your personal imaginings, maybe I can come up with some real concern.
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fellfire
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
You asked why you should give a fuck, I gave you a reason, I didn't say anything about forcing them to do something.


Just because someone shares the same species as myself is no reason to give any concern for them. I have no concern for the people living in Wyoming or Bohpal, how can I? I don't know any of them. I have no concern for the people living in LA, again, how can I be concerned about any of them, I don't know any of them.

I know of the people in Israel and Palestine, and from what I know of them, I am more inclined to be concerned for other people because those in the middle east have wrought what they have sown (to borrow a biblical phrase).

It seems obvious to the casual observer that there are not enough people in the middle east yet who care about the problem to tip the scale towards a solution. It seems that before you can have a solution, you need people to want a solution. Moreso, you need more people to want a solution then you have people who don't want a solution. Right now, the balance is towards those who don't want a solution. So, it would seem that there are two paths before us: 1) get more people in the middle east who want a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian problem or 2) get fewer people in the middle east who do not want a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian problem.

I conjecture that if those in the middle east start killing each other at an even greater pace, solution 2 above will present itself. Until then, since I have no plans on being in the middle east, I see no reason to give a fuck. As I stated before, just because you are human does not mean I should give a fuck about you.
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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fellfire wrote:
jusdeadphunky wrote:
fellfire wrote:
Lester wrote:
Because despite them not giving a fuck they *are* still people.


Yes, they are people. Because of that, I afford them unalienable rights to screw themselves over as much as they want as long as that said screwage does not impact me or mine. Unless you are going to claim that they are all mentally deficient then by what right do you think you have to tell them what to do?

If you were king of the world for a day, do you think you have the right to dictate what Palestine and Israel will do to live in peace? Is this a case where Authoritarian rule is justified?


well the u.s. dictates what the rights the palestinians are allowed to be denied, so you should give a fuck.


That's a nice sound bite, but it has no validity in reality. The US has no troops in Palestine and none in Israel. The US does not control the Israel Knesset or the Palestinian Authority Parliament.

So when you can come up with something real rather then your personal imaginings, maybe I can come up with some real concern.


when i come up with something real...

lets use our fucking brains here: if israel was not armed and funded by the u.s. do you think they would be able to continue their tyrannical enslavement of palestine? i don't think so.
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fellfire
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
jusdeadphunky wrote:
fellfire wrote:

jusdeadphunky wrote:
well the u.s. dictates what the rights the palestinians are allowed to be denied, so you should give a fuck.


That's a nice sound bite, but it has no validity in reality. The US has no troops in Palestine and none in Israel. The US does not control the Israel Knesset or the Palestinian Authority Parliament.

So when you can come up with something real rather then your personal imaginings, maybe I can come up with some real concern.


when i come up with something real...

lets use our fucking brains here: if israel was not armed and funded by the u.s. do you think they would be able to continue their tyrannical enslavement of palestine? i don't think so.


I agree, if israel was not armed and given funds by the US and France, and they did not then get their weapons and funding from China, or maybe India, then they would not be continuing their enslavement of palestine ... no, what you would have is a land divided up by Syria, Jordan and Eygpt and the terrorists would be jews and the refugee camps would be filled with jews rather then arabs. The rockets would be slamming into arab neighborhoods and the tanks would be rumbling through jewish ghettos. So that is the reality you would rather have?

Or do you really think that the arab states over there would leave israel alone, if only, israel left them alone? Are you that delusional about this?

Like I said, come up with something real. The US does not dictate the rights granted to the palestinians in israeli occupied lands, the israelis do. If you are suggesting that the US can threaten to cut off aid and thus control israeli actions then fuckin' say that! The bullshit you posted about the US dictating palestinian rights is just that, bullshit. A strawman. Get real.

Israeli peace was gained with Eygpt,Jordan and Syria because an Arab military solution failed. Israel continues to exist because of its strong military. Now, IMO, Israel risks becoming an Authoritarian regime because of its fear of annihilation and I understand the palestinians viewing Israel that way.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
fellfire wrote:
Lester wrote:
You asked why you should give a fuck, I gave you a reason, I didn't say anything about forcing them to do something.


Just because someone shares the same species as myself is no reason to give any concern for them. I have no concern for the people living in Wyoming or Bohpal, how can I? I don't know any of them. I have no concern for the people living in LA, again, how can I be concerned about any of them, I don't know any of them.

I know of the people in Israel and Palestine, and from what I know of them, I am more inclined to be concerned for other people because those in the middle east have wrought what they have sown (to borrow a biblical phrase).

It seems obvious to the casual observer that there are not enough people in the middle east yet who care about the problem to tip the scale towards a solution. It seems that before you can have a solution, you need people to want a solution. Moreso, you need more people to want a solution then you have people who don't want a solution. Right now, the balance is towards those who don't want a solution. So, it would seem that there are two paths before us: 1) get more people in the middle east who want a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian problem or 2) get fewer people in the middle east who do not want a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian problem.

I conjecture that if those in the middle east start killing each other at an even greater pace, solution 2 above will present itself. Until then, since I have no plans on being in the middle east, I see no reason to give a fuck. As I stated before, just because you are human does not mean I should give a fuck about you.



Of course it does! Just because you don't know someones life story they aren't just as important as anyone else? I'm sorry you don't know everyone in the world, but you don't need to know someone to make his or her life better now do you?

Both sides have people who want a solution, they just want different solutions, do you really think there are people who go around thinking;

"I'm going to be a right evil bastard today, maybe kill a few people, set some car bombs, why? Well why the fuck not! I just love the stench of death and chaos and fear for no other reason than it pleases me...."


No. Every person is the hero in his own story, the people you villify and sentence to death with your actions simply have a different perspective than you, it does not mean that they should die.
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fellfire
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
fellfire wrote:
As I stated before, just because you are human does not mean I should give a fuck about you.



Of course it does! Just because you don't know someones life story they aren't just as important as anyone else? I'm sorry you don't know everyone in the world, but you don't need to know someone to make his or her life better now do you?


Bull. I owe nothing to those people, they owe nothing to me, including concern for each others well being. I don't ask of them to come over here and make my life better. It is equally ludicrous for you to expect me to consider someone in the middle east as equal for my concern as my own child - that ain't going to happen. In other words, complete strangers are not as important to me as people I know and love.

Lester wrote:
Both sides have people who want a solution, they just want different solutions, do you really think there are people who go around thinking;

"I'm going to be a right evil bastard today, maybe kill a few people, set some car bombs, why? Well why the fuck not! I just love the stench of death and chaos and fear for no other reason than it pleases me...."

No. Every person is the hero in his own story, the people you villify and sentence to death with your actions simply have a different perspective than you, it does not mean that they should die.


I'll explain this again. I acknowledge that there are people over there that want peace, good for them. But there are obviously more people over there that want to blow each other's brains out. Do people over there go around thinking about killing people - apparently so. A bunch of Hamas men attack some Fatah men, that wasn't some accident, the Hamas guy didn't trip and shoot the fatah guy. No, some guy thought "hey, lets go kill them." I have no idea why, it is enough for me that they are more intent on killing each other then on making their lives better. They can have at it.

Additionally, for the moment at least, come back to reality. I have done no actions that have resulted in the harm that is suffered over there. Get it through your head - the US is not responsible for all the woes of the world despite your seeming desire to have it so. There are problems in the world that are solely the responsibility of those causing the problem.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I never said you owe them anything, except perhaps a bit of concern about fellow human beings, but no matter if you owe them, you can help them can't you?

They go around killing sure, but not for shits and giggles, they do it because they really do think that those deaths will lead to a better world, just like the Japanese and ANZACS in WWII, they both thought they were doing the world good by killing the other.

I don't think the U.S. is responsible for all the woes in the world, I think that capitalist and facist type thinking, the "I want" train of thought is responsible for a good deal, the rest being pure dumb luck.
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