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exton
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="TrespassersW"]
Quote:

The federal government has stepped in to manage creation of those standards.


Except they haven't.

I'll clarify what i mean. I propose clear and exact guidelines on the subjects to be taught to american students and, to a degree, how those subjects shall be taught. There should also be a testing system used to benchmark progress. The guidelines would be on the minimalist side - that is, they would specify what the bear minimum is, not the limits as to what states or towns are allowed to offer.

Quote:

If localities were left to create their own standards, some would do it better than others and those localities would tend to prosper relative to those that made lesser choices. This competition of ideas would serve to improve education over all, as localities learned from the examples of those doing a better job.


You'd think so, wouldn't you?

But that's not what has happened in reality. While money and prosperity are certainly motivating factors, culture and cultural innertia are much more powerful forces where these things are concerned.
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TrespassersW
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
I propose clear and exact guidelines on the subjects to be taught to american students and, to a degree, how those subjects shall be taught.

I just think that the money and resources you would waste managing that at the federal level (hell that IS wasted doing stuff like that now) could be used to build another school or hire more teachers or improve the home life of impoverished students to make them more ready to learn when they get to school. (I respect your ideas, but I just prefer local solutions and I also respect the wisdom of the framers in leaving things like this out of the hands of the feds.)
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exton
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The framers did not envision the type of civilization we have, and they certainly did not envision the needs that have come up as a result.

And while i agree that money spent on teachers and schools is well-spent, there's simply no point in doing that if those teachers and schools are not teaching children the things they need to know. It makes no sense.
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TrespassersW
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
The framers did not envision the type of civilization we have, and they certainly did not envision the needs that have come up as a result.

They had the foresight to build a mechanism for amendment into the Constitution. Used properly that allows us to take any needs that have come up into account. If we want the feds to handle education, we ought to amend the Constitution to give them that authority and that power. Simply allowing them to act without the authority allows them too much leeway. (Which might explain what's happened to education in this country.)
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exton
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's not an objection to federally mandated education.
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TrespassersW
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
That's not an objection to federally mandated education.

What isn't? (Can you quote the post you're responding to in cases like this?)
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exton
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's pretty much your whole post.

Whether or not the federal government is explicitly granted the power to regulate public education has nothing to do with whether or not federalized public education is a good idea. The thought process should be the other way around - figure out if it's a good idea, and then consider how (and if) the laws must be changed to accomodate your conclusion.
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TrespassersW
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
It's pretty much your whole post.

Whether or not the federal government is explicitly granted the power to regulate public education has nothing to do with whether or not federalized public education is a good idea. The thought process should be the other way around - figure out if it's a good idea, and then consider how (and if) the laws must be changed to accomodate your conclusion.

But that's taking one post out of context and ignoring my comments in another, isn't it? I think I've covered my reasons; both why I believe they lack the authority to do this and why I don't think they are best suited to take on this role.
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