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Liberals need to vote for Ron Paul

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Lester
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
They certainly don't, their states population density is tiny compared to the industrial areas.
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fellfire
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's why the electoral college mechanism is good for the heartland states.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Indeed!
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Turk
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fellfire wrote:
That's why the electoral college mechanism is good for the heartland states.

Yes it is good it keeps us a republic not a democracy when will people ever get that through their heads?
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fellfire
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Turk wrote:
fellfire wrote:
That's why the electoral college mechanism is good for the heartland states.

Yes it is good it keeps us a republic not a democracy when will people ever get that through their heads?


We do not want to be a democracy (at least not in the sense of an Athenian Democracy). The founders created this country as a republic and, so far, no one has presented a compelling reason to change from that model that has lasted 231 years. People may not have it through their heads that we are a republic and not a democracy, but people generally like our form of government - there are no violent protests of the sort you see elsewhere in the world.
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Turk
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fellfire wrote:
Turk wrote:
fellfire wrote:
That's why the electoral college mechanism is good for the heartland states.

Yes it is good it keeps us a republic not a democracy when will people ever get that through their heads?


We do not want to be a democracy (at least not in the sense of an Athenian Democracy). The founders created this country as a republic and, so far, no one has presented a compelling reason to change from that model that has lasted 231 years. People may not have it through their heads that we are a republic and not a democracy, but people generally like our form of government - there are no violent protests of the sort you see elsewhere in the world.
people sure want to change that
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fellfire
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Turk wrote:
fellfire wrote:
Turk wrote:
fellfire wrote:
That's why the electoral college mechanism is good for the heartland states.

Yes it is good it keeps us a republic not a democracy when will people ever get that through their heads?


We do not want to be a democracy (at least not in the sense of an Athenian Democracy). The founders created this country as a republic and, so far, no one has presented a compelling reason to change from that model that has lasted 231 years. People may not have it through their heads that we are a republic and not a democracy, but people generally like our form of government - there are no violent protests of the sort you see elsewhere in the world.
people sure want to change that


if by "people" you mean "Turk" then I would agree with you. Some people have argued against the electoral college, but no one has come up with a reason to do away with it other then pointing to some nebulous idea of our country being a democracy.
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exton
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fellfire wrote:
no one has come up with a reason to do away with it


Al gore woulda been president.

(not that that's actually a good reason)
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Turk
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
fellfire wrote:
no one has come up with a reason to do away with it


Al gore woulda been president.

(not that that's actually a good reason)

And Bush beat kerry through popular vote
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exton
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Turk wrote:
exton wrote:

(not that that's actually a good reason)

And Bush beat kerry through popular vote


Gore having been president for the four years previous, that particular matchup would never have occured.
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fellfire
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
fellfire wrote:
no one has come up with a reason to do away with it


Al gore woulda been president.

(not that that's actually a good reason)


understood. But it has been only three times in our history that the popular vote has not coincided with the electoral vote: 1876, 1888, 2000. Additionally, there are significant challenges to establishing a direct vote system.
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Lynx
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fellfire wrote:
exton wrote:
fellfire wrote:
no one has come up with a reason to do away with it


Al gore woulda been president.

(not that that's actually a good reason)


understood. But it has been only three times in our history that the popular vote has not coincided with the electoral vote: 1876, 1888, 2000. Additionally, there are significant challenges to establishing a direct vote system.


3/43 is still pathetic when we are the pioneers of free, modern democracy. Razz
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exton
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think what i'd like is a "vote for multiple candidates" system. That would help things greatly.
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fellfire
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
I think what i'd like is a "vote for multiple candidates" system. That would help things greatly.


The "vote for multiple candidates" actually has a greater chance of getting a candidate that does not have the majority of the popular vote. Russia has such a system and Yeltsin was elected with a negative mandate.

If we went to direct popular vote, then with two parties you could come right out and see exactly who got the majority vote ... but what happens when you have the third party who takes some percentage of the vote.

For example, what if we get a vote spread like this:

democratic candidate:42%
republican candidate:48%
Independent candidate: 10%

Who got the majority of the popular vote there? The republican candidate gained 48% of the popular vote, but lost 52% of the popular vote? So you STILL do not get what you want, election by the majority.
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exton
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fellfire wrote:
So you STILL do not get what you want, election by the majority.


I actually do not want that. I just wish gore was president.

Like i said: it's not a good reason Smile
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