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jusdeadphunky
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Posts: 2071

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Xerxes wrote:
little lai wrote:
Xerxes wrote:
little lai wrote:
throwing more bodies over there provides more people to try to stop the violence.


Throwing? Bodies? Good God, man, get ahold of yourself! Rolling Eyes


i was just reusing exon's words and you are not rolling your eyes at him.


That was because you did not respond to cornocopean calling you a dick.


cornopean called little lai a dick!

yes!...and the list of rude and insulting people keeps growing, and since trespassers the BA (bitch ass) ignores rude and insulting people, surely he is either going to have to stop using the excuse of not responding to rude and insulting people to mask his ignorance or he is going to have to find a new place to make excuses for the administration.
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exton
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Posts: 2825

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
little lai wrote:

throwing more bodies over there provides more people to try to stop the violence..


That's my point. It's not a solution to the problem.

It's like if you designed an aircraft, and found out that it couldn't fly...and you try to solve that problem by putting more money into making more of the aircraft. It's just not a solution.

Quote:

that is why i said in the wall topic that it is good the iraqis were able to tell the u.s. to stop and that the u.s. listened.


That's partly missing the point: had we asked them *before* making it, we never would have made it in the first place.

Quote:

i still like the idea and think it would help to keep the sunni terrorists in check.


No, it won't. If you're motivated enough that you want to make exploding death traps, having to go around a wall to do it isn't really going to stop you from getting things done.
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Lester
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Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 3796

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jusdeadphunky wrote:
exton wrote:
Lester wrote:
exton wrote:
little lai wrote:
we might have to give it some more time before we can know for sure. there are a lot of good things happening in iraq, it is not all bad.


Good always comes mixed with bad. That fact is largely irrelevent.


Your female ancestor from whose womb you came from is largely irrelevant!!

Oh sizzle.


You making fun of my mother? Biatch?


lester is quote the rabble rouser these days.


That makes sense as quote, but I think you meant quite. Also yes, yes I am, I am running low on time and I can't really duke it out much, besides which everyone seems to ignore my posts unless they are funny Sad, so I just make jokes to up my post #'s, I don't want to fall behind exton.

Whose mother, as previously stated, is largely irrelevant, in the grand scheme of things.

Perspective machine!!
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joeyjock
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Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 554
Location: Fort Lauderdale

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
We have just had a month of elevating violence
...the Americans..we're not even bothering to say the coalition anymore...remember that bit of propaganda?
..are placing concrete barriers --- or blast walls between the sunni's and the shiites
car bombings are becoming more and more deadly'...they are using CL gas more and more
the reconstruction projects are baasically all failing
...and we have to have FAITH????
Faith in this Admin to do something right at long last?
when they haven't done a damned theing correctly the entire time that they've been in office?
...so a question...
What infinitessimal thing can we look forward to to NOT say get our troops out tommorrow???
..and don't say Iraq will be worse because Dam...how can it get any worse?
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little lai
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Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
what is going to happen to iraq when we leave? millions of people are going to die. is that what you people want, millions of dead people?
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fellfire
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Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 470
Location: Washington DC

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
little lai wrote:
what is going to happen to iraq when we leave? millions of people are going to die. is that what you people want, millions of dead people?


Where were you when millions died in Rwanda? I didn't hear rousing cheers that the US should go in there. Or how about Darfur? where are the cries for the US to invade Sudan - millions of people are dying there.

The idea that millions of foriegners will die someplace is not a reason to order an American soldier to put his/herself in the line of fire. If an American citizen wished to volunteer to protect Iraqi's, ala Chennault's Flying Tigers in WWII or the Doughboys in WWI, then so be it. But keeping the American military in harms way because we fear the loss of life if we leave is ludicrous.

And now to address the fallacy of the argument. This argument has been promoted by Bush supporters:

If we leave Iraq, millions of Iraqis will die, therefore, we can not leave Iraq.

But a more valid argument is:

If we stay in Iraq, millions of Iraqis will die, therefore, we can not stay in Iraq.

The reason this is a more valid argument is because it is based on historical evidence whereas the first argument is based on conjecture and faith.

You don't want millions of people do die, do you? So why are you supporting us staying in Iraq?
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little lai
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Location: lodi, CA

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
the millions of people dying in rwanda and darfur are not dying because of the united states. the people in iraq are dying because of what the united states did. would i support a force to put an end to the genocide in darfur? yes i would, but we do not have the man power right now because of iraq and terrorist iran breathing down our throats.

iraq is plagued by violence and that violence is not just going to disappear because the u.s. leaves. that violence is in fact going to continue.

which situation do you feel is safer and would rather be in?:

getting into a street fight in a bad part of town, where you are completely on your own. no one to help none the less no one around to even hear you cry and plead for help, where the people you are in conflict with can beat you, torture you, rape you then kill you (pulling out of iraq)

or

getting into a fight with neutral parties around who will do their best to prevent someone else from jumping in, and who will do their best to ensure that once you are knocked out and on the ground, the person you are fighting will not kick you in the face (staying in iraq and giving the surge a fair chance)
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fellfire
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Posts: 470
Location: Washington DC

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
little lai wrote:
the millions of people dying in rwanda and darfur are not dying because of the united states. the people in iraq are dying because of what the united states did. would i support a force to put an end to the genocide in darfur? yes i would, but we do not have the man power right now because of iraq and terrorist iran breathing down our throats.


The people in Iraq are dying because other people in Iraq are killing them. Let's put the responsibility where it lies and not try and avoid some of these niggling details. The US is not forcing Sunni and Shia killings.

So you agree that we should let millions die Darfur in order to protect ourselves from potential terrorists in Iraq. So is there a difference in getting out of Iraq and protecting Darfur instead? You really have no problem with letting millions of people die.

little lai wrote:
iraq is plagued by violence and that violence is not just going to disappear because the u.s. leaves. that violence is in fact going to continue.


... additionally, that violence is not going to just disappear if we stay there. I am basing my assertion on historical precedence, what are you basing your assertion on?

little lai wrote:
which situation do you feel is safer and would rather be in?:

fellfire wrote:
... snip ...




Your wierd analogy is irrelevant, try explaining yourself with something concrete rather than comparing Iraq to a street brawl ... unless you happen to think that what we have done in Iraq is a geo-political street brawl. Is that what you are trying to say?

The idea that if we leave Iraq it will be the beginning of the "end of the world as we know it" (which seems to be the theme spouted by this administration) is ludicrous. The arguments that are presented vary by they follow a theme:

1. "Millions will die" - So what? It is more likely hundreds of thousands but again, so what? hundreds of thousands of people die all the time, why are Iraqis worth an American soldiers life?

2. "Iran will take over the Middle East" - what do you think will be different if Iran invaded and occupied Iraq? I'll tell you, they would be facing IEDs and an insurgent civil war and the dead soldiers will be Iranian.

3. "World economies will collapse because of an oil crisis." - why? Iraqs contribution to the oil market now is minimal because of the current strife, if Iran took over, would it be more or less? Why do you think OPEC would stop the flow of oil if we got out of Iraq. They would need to money to support the insurgents fighting Iran.

4. "A nuclear arms race will ensue because other Arab states will be afraid of Iranian Nukes" - and this will be different how? if we stay? What has US troops in Iraq got to do with preventing the Iranians from developing the Bomb?

So far there has not been a single valid argument about why we should sacrifice more US lives for the sake of Iraq.
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joeyjock
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Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 554
Location: Fort Lauderdale

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
little lai wrote:
what is going to happen to iraq when we leave? millions of people are going to die. is that what you people want, millions of dead people?

Do you THINK that we're keeping millions from dying now?
We are exacerbating the problem
and becoming the target at the sametime
why do you THINK it's so hard to get numbers of Iraqi dead???
It's because the admin doesn't want you to know that more than a half million people have been killed since we're there
and alot of those families who saw their loved ones die blame us>>>>>>feeding the insurgency
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Xerxes
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Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 1530
Location: 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This guy disgusts me! I am ashamed to say that this guy is from my district. Comparing a Cardinals game to the war:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/.....s-cubbies/
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little lai
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Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 161
Location: lodi, CA

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
joeyjock wrote:
little lai wrote:
what is going to happen to iraq when we leave? millions of people are going to die. is that what you people want, millions of dead people?

Do you THINK that we're keeping millions from dying now?
We are exacerbating the problem
and becoming the target at the sametime
why do you THINK it's so hard to get numbers of Iraqi dead???
It's because the admin doesn't want you to know that more than a half million people have been killed since we're there
and alot of those families who saw their loved ones die blame us>>>>>>feeding the insurgency


i am pretty sure that 90,000 iraqis have died because of the war, not 500,000. you do know that people still die when there is not war.
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little lai
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Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 161
Location: lodi, CA

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
fellfire wrote:
little lai wrote:
the millions of people dying in rwanda and darfur are not dying because of the united states. the people in iraq are dying because of what the united states did. would i support a force to put an end to the genocide in darfur? yes i would, but we do not have the man power right now because of iraq and terrorist iran breathing down our throats.


The people in Iraq are dying because other people in Iraq are killing them. Let's put the responsibility where it lies and not try and avoid some of these niggling details. The US is not forcing Sunni and Shia killings.

So you agree that we should let millions die Darfur in order to protect ourselves from potential terrorists in Iraq. So is there a difference in getting out of Iraq and protecting Darfur instead? You really have no problem with letting millions of people die.

little lai wrote:
iraq is plagued by violence and that violence is not just going to disappear because the u.s. leaves. that violence is in fact going to continue.


... additionally, that violence is not going to just disappear if we stay there. I am basing my assertion on historical precedence, what are you basing your assertion on?

little lai wrote:
which situation do you feel is safer and would rather be in?:

fellfire wrote:
... snip ...




Your wierd analogy is irrelevant, try explaining yourself with something concrete rather than comparing Iraq to a street brawl ... unless you happen to think that what we have done in Iraq is a geo-political street brawl. Is that what you are trying to say?

The idea that if we leave Iraq it will be the beginning of the "end of the world as we know it" (which seems to be the theme spouted by this administration) is ludicrous. The arguments that are presented vary by they follow a theme:

1. "Millions will die" - So what? It is more likely hundreds of thousands but again, so what? hundreds of thousands of people die all the time, why are Iraqis worth an American soldiers life?

2. "Iran will take over the Middle East" - what do you think will be different if Iran invaded and occupied Iraq? I'll tell you, they would be facing IEDs and an insurgent civil war and the dead soldiers will be Iranian.

3. "World economies will collapse because of an oil crisis." - why? Iraqs contribution to the oil market now is minimal because of the current strife, if Iran took over, would it be more or less? Why do you think OPEC would stop the flow of oil if we got out of Iraq. They would need to money to support the insurgents fighting Iran.

4. "A nuclear arms race will ensue because other Arab states will be afraid of Iranian Nukes" - and this will be different how? if we stay? What has US troops in Iraq got to do with preventing the Iranians from developing the Bomb?

So far there has not been a single valid argument about why we should sacrifice more US lives for the sake of Iraq.


my analogy is perfectly relevant. what is not relevant is all your off topic numbered things.
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fellfire
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Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 470
Location: Washington DC

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
little lai wrote:
fellfire wrote:
little lai wrote:
the millions of people dying in rwanda and darfur are not dying because of the united states. the people in iraq are dying because of what the united states did. would i support a force to put an end to the genocide in darfur? yes i would, but we do not have the man power right now because of iraq and terrorist iran breathing down our throats.


The people in Iraq are dying because other people in Iraq are killing them. Let's put the responsibility where it lies and not try and avoid some of these niggling details. The US is not forcing Sunni and Shia killings.

So you agree that we should let millions die Darfur in order to protect ourselves from potential terrorists in Iraq. So is there a difference in getting out of Iraq and protecting Darfur instead? You really have no problem with letting millions of people die.

little lai wrote:
iraq is plagued by violence and that violence is not just going to disappear because the u.s. leaves. that violence is in fact going to continue.


... additionally, that violence is not going to just disappear if we stay there. I am basing my assertion on historical precedence, what are you basing your assertion on?

little lai wrote:
which situation do you feel is safer and would rather be in?:

fellfire wrote:
... snip ...




Your wierd analogy is irrelevant, try explaining yourself with something concrete rather than comparing Iraq to a street brawl ... unless you happen to think that what we have done in Iraq is a geo-political street brawl. Is that what you are trying to say?

The idea that if we leave Iraq it will be the beginning of the "end of the world as we know it" (which seems to be the theme spouted by this administration) is ludicrous. The arguments that are presented vary by they follow a theme:

1. "Millions will die" - So what? It is more likely hundreds of thousands but again, so what? hundreds of thousands of people die all the time, why are Iraqis worth an American soldiers life?

2. "Iran will take over the Middle East" - what do you think will be different if Iran invaded and occupied Iraq? I'll tell you, they would be facing IEDs and an insurgent civil war and the dead soldiers will be Iranian.

3. "World economies will collapse because of an oil crisis." - why? Iraqs contribution to the oil market now is minimal because of the current strife, if Iran took over, would it be more or less? Why do you think OPEC would stop the flow of oil if we got out of Iraq. They would need to money to support the insurgents fighting Iran.

4. "A nuclear arms race will ensue because other Arab states will be afraid of Iranian Nukes" - and this will be different how? if we stay? What has US troops in Iraq got to do with preventing the Iranians from developing the Bomb?

So far there has not been a single valid argument about why we should sacrifice more US lives for the sake of Iraq.


my analogy is perfectly relevant. what is not relevant is all your off topic numbered things.


Oh yeah, follow your leader - Bush - and spout the party line while ignoring the details. That's what got us into the mess. I'll take it by your refusal to address some of the issues of what would would happen if we left, you acknowledge that you don't have a frickin' clue about what would happen if we left and are just parrotting the output of the Administrations "Stay the course" policy.
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joeyjock
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Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 554
Location: Fort Lauderdale

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
little lai wrote:
joeyjock wrote:
little lai wrote:
what is going to happen to iraq when we leave? millions of people are going to die. is that what you people want, millions of dead people?

Do you THINK that we're keeping millions from dying now?
We are exacerbating the problem
and becoming the target at the sametime
why do you THINK it's so hard to get numbers of Iraqi dead???
It's because the admin doesn't want you to know that more than a half million people have been killed since we're there
and alot of those families who saw their loved ones die blame us>>>>>>feeding the insurgency


i am pretty sure that 90,000 iraqis have died because of the war, not 500,000. you do know that people still die when there is not war.


90,000???
My friend THAT is way too low a number
the Lancet has gone in and stated that they counted 600,000 and that was a low est
...and OF COURSE the right wingnuts came out and said oh but they didn't count heads..blah blah blah
They used proven guidelines that have been used in counting populations in war and in epidemics for years
this war has been turning into a war of changing the truth to fit your needs
Iraqi's have been killed by the thousands and you're making it out to be a death by natural causes
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fellfire
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Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 470
Location: Washington DC

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
joeyjock wrote:
Iraqi's have been killed by the thousands and you're making it out to be a death by natural causes


That is the freakin' wierdest thing about this argument: "If we leave, millions of Iraqi's will die. Do you want millions of people to die?"; the people making the argument convienently overlook the fact that people are dying now, and not by natural causes!

Little lai wouldn't even consider expanding on the argument in more detail (apparently, details are irrelevant). I can only surmise that there is no more detail - all they have is a sound-bite: "millions of people will die.".
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