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Docsmitter
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
JesusLopezViejo wrote:
Oolon Colluphid wrote:
JesusLopezViejo wrote:
I totally agree.

Just because I'm not doing anything wrong, still doesn't mean I want someone listening in on my calls or even have a computer sifting through my voice patterns...

What if I wanted to have phone sex with my girlfriend?

Do I want someone listening to that?

What if I had something personal to tell someone...do I want someone listening to that?

What if I was a politician and was discussing future plans against the opposition, but the opposition had the ability to spy into what I was talking about, is that fair?

It makes no sense at all.


That doesn't seem to be the end of it anyways.. You give a little now, then before you know it, they'll find something to use against you for your dissension. Hypothetical now, but what happens when it's completely possible?


I don't know man...

It scares me that the president is so gung-ho about going against the EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT THE MAJORITY OF AMERICA WANTS.

That is scary...You would figure a president would heed the call of his people and make them happy.

Instead he is taking a "daddy knows best" attitude and it makes me angry.


Says your personal feelings or the media? What am I listening to?
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Docsmitter
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
Spider Jerusalem wrote:
Oolon Colluphid wrote:
You know if it were up to the right in this country we wouldn't have a right to privacy or choice. What is freedom without both of these? What is left to be free about?

Oh Christ, don't be so mellow dramatic sheesh.

What's so bad about the goverment spying on you? I really don't see the big deal. You wouldn't do anything differantly, or are you upset you can't do the things you shouldn't be doing?

Personaly if I were running things the only things that would be illegal are sexual deviance and abortion. Everything else would be permitted basicaly. Even murder could be settled in a one on one duel.


I read a book once where they found a way to open tiny little wormholes, not big enough to put anything through, but big enough to put a camera too, these cameras made everyone be able to see everything in the world, there were caps on it but it was a new technology and easily hacked.

This led to people who just didn't wear clothing if they didn't need it for warmth and people having sex in the open, because it really doesn't matter now does it?

It also lead to a huge outrage when they filmed american troops in action over in middle east countries.

If it was available to everyone, and the government had to let people see them too, if it would break down all those barriers, I would totally be for it. Thats the thing though, it's not equality, only a select few are allowed access to it. So crimes could just be made up and covered up by anyone with money to pay the people wiretapping them.

You'd cause more crimes than you'd prevent.


Wormhole tech?

What are you reading mate?
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exton
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Docsmitter wrote:


Wormhole tech?

What are you reading mate?


A book by stephen baxter, i believe. I think i read the same one.
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Docsmitter
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
Docsmitter wrote:


Wormhole tech?

What are you reading mate?


A book by stephen baxter, i believe. I think i read the same one.


I haven't follwed anything of the sort, as for as long as I can remember thats in the sci fi section. Nothing past theory and concept.
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PeaceLoveandRockNRoll
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Spider Jerusalem wrote:
Oolon Colluphid wrote:
You know if it were up to the right in this country we wouldn't have a right to privacy or choice. What is freedom without both of these? What is left to be free about?

Oh Christ, don't be so mellow dramatic sheesh.

What's so bad about the goverment spying on you? I really don't see the big deal. You wouldn't do anything differantly, or are you upset you can't do the things you shouldn't be doing?

Personaly if I were running things the only things that would be illegal are sexual deviance and abortion. Everything else would be permitted basicaly. Even murder could be settled in a one on one duel.


What definition of sexual deviance are you working from? Is anything illegal except lights out missionary? I mean, turning the lights out is silly, everyone can see you anyway. Given that, how about public sex? And are you saying that if I have sex with a guy who wants me to, the government will come after me, but if I beat him to death with a hammer and nobody's brave or tough enough to come after me for it, I don't get punished?
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PeaceLoveandRockNRoll
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh, and abortion is legal, but infanticide is okay? So, all the teenage mother has to do is wait till her baby is born, and then she can kill it? How can you even pretend that's a legitimate moral standpoint?
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Spider Jerusalem
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jesus Christ, are you some kindof lame superhero? Strawman: The Man of Straw Arguments!

Slander away till your face turns blue. I never said any of that crap did I? If taxes should go to anything, it should be the children. I don't have to say it, it go's without saying. I know better then to expect an ignoramus liberal to understand logic and reason. So I save my breath and just pursue my goals. Liberals are fools and horrible subcreatures. Their opinions have no value, and they contribute nothing to society.

And what do you mean no-one will come after you if someone beats you to death with a hammer? Well, maybe not you, I don't like you, lol! But if someone half important were abused like that sure. I could see aid programs. This is why the police should be privatized the goverment may help you, but it's no garantee. Seeing as children should be thier first priority, and market watching thier second. You're safety is secondary because I don't want a mommy state.

Besides, if duels were legalized there'd be no good excuse for such an occurance. Rule one of fightclub, don't ever talk about fightclub!
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cornopean
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:44 am    Post subject: Re: If your not doing anything wrong.... Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
You don't have to worry about the increased security measures of the government.


This is a defense used again and again by supporters of human right removing bills. It is a clear fallacy, all we have to look at is McCarthyism, perhaps some of these people should read 'The Crucible'.

Why do people persist in using this as a defense?

to me its a tradeoff. and I am more than willing to trade some civil liberties in for increased security. even phone sex..........so what. I imagine the govt would get bored listening to it. Embarassed
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Tesla
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:41 am    Post subject: Re: If your not doing anything wrong.... Reply with quote
If it ever comes to the US making arrest without warrents, I'll be the first one on the bus to Canada.

cornopean wrote:

to me its a tradeoff. and I am more than willing to trade some civil liberties in for increased security. even phone sex..........so what. I imagine the govt would get bored listening to it. Embarassed


Terrorists want to disrupt the people they hate live's. Al qeada, want to destroy america, What is America really? Land of the FREE, and the home of the BRAVE. If you're too AFRAID of terrorists, that you approve of legislation that OPPRESSES you, then thats when the terrorists win.
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exton
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:09 am    Post subject: Re: If your not doing anything wrong.... Reply with quote
cornopean wrote:

to me its a tradeoff. and I am more than willing to trade some civil liberties in for increased security. even phone sex..........so what. I imagine the govt would get bored listening to it. Embarassed


But how much more security are you really gaining?

You have to lose a lot of civil liberties in order to get any real gain in security.

Plus, that's pretty much what the terrorists want - they want us shaking in our britches, scared into changing our way of life.
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rogerr
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
"If you are not doing anything wrong". Just who is it that is going to judge the difference between right and wrong?
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PeaceLoveandRockNRoll
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
"Those willing to trade their liberty in return for security deserve neither liberty nor security." -Ben Franklin, who has a pretty good idea of what America is about. Kudos to Tesla for saying it so effectively. I believe if I were Rush Limbaugh right now, I'd say something like "this is what Americans stand for, if you don't like it you can get out." But that would be silly, there's a place here for everyone... just gonna say I'm glad cornopean isn't President.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Docsmitter wrote:
exton wrote:
Docsmitter wrote:


Wormhole tech?

What are you reading mate?


A book by stephen baxter, i believe. I think i read the same one.


I haven't follwed anything of the sort, as for as long as I can remember thats in the sci fi section. Nothing past theory and concept.


Stephen Baxter sounds familiar, do you remember the name? It was fairly good, had to be to make an impact that big I guess.

And yes Spider, I never said it wasn't theory and concept, it was just an example of what total surveillance would do to society if it was available to the public, if it was just the government who had it, well, you'll have to read 1984 for that.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Spider Jerusalem wrote:
Jesus Christ, are you some kindof lame superhero? Strawman: The Man of Straw Arguments!

Slander away till your face turns blue. I never said any of that crap did I? If taxes should go to anything, it should be the children. I don't have to say it, it go's without saying. I know better then to expect an ignoramus liberal to understand logic and reason. So I save my breath and just pursue my goals. Liberals are fools and horrible subcreatures. Their opinions have no value, and they contribute nothing to society.

And what do you mean no-one will come after you if someone beats you to death with a hammer? Well, maybe not you, I don't like you, lol! But if someone half important were abused like that sure. I could see aid programs. This is why the police should be privatized the goverment may help you, but it's no garantee. Seeing as children should be thier first priority, and market watching thier second. You're safety is secondary because I don't want a mommy state.

Besides, if duels were legalized there'd be no good excuse for such an occurance. Rule one of fightclub, don't ever talk about fightclub!


Beneath the condescation(sp?) there was a valid point, the rul;es and regulations behind what was sexual deviance and who could partake in duels was neglected in your previous post, could you perhaps tell us what they would be?
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cornopean
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:10 am    Post subject: Re: If your not doing anything wrong.... Reply with quote
Quote:
Plus, that's pretty much what the terrorists want - they want us shaking in our britches, scared into changing our way of life.

I agree that is what the terrorists want. and I agree we are going to lose on that front. but our lives are going to have to change if we are going to successfully confront this enemy. our lives had to change to confront the evil of Nazism. our lives changed again in order to confront the evil of communism. now our lives are going to have to adapt again. I don't see any way around it.
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