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fellfire
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hey Anym, discussions here can be civilized, sometimes.
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Anym
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yea well then I'm going to have to call in gravel and paul.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You always have to dump rocks on everything... OHHH you mean the guy?
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Anym
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes the two guys on the polar extremes of each party that keep making fights at debates.
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CustomFordGirl
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
See? This is exactly why I'm not running for President on the same ticket as Anym.. Smile Lester and I can at least admit when we're wrong, without saying "well you're stupid anyway."
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Anym
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Aww but all this political hugging and getting along makes debate boring.
It's why me and Lester never debate.
It's just more interesting when people start taking stabs.
It's also why the republican debates are just a little more interesting because they have started to go after Mitt and Rudy.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think we argued once about assisted suicide, I went against the liberal grain :O
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Anym
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
shock an d awe lester shock and awe
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Lester
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I like living things, don't hurt me!!
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Anym
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
I like living things, don't hurt me!!


Lester will now be put to death for defending living things.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
But, being that it's only assisted suicide, pffft, forget about those murder charges!
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phoneguytim
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
it's kind of funny how the arrogant evolutionists so often use "evidence suggests" when it seems to back up their faith, but completely ignore evidence that goes against it.

hey, if someone wants to believe evolution--fine, knock yourselves out. but the fervor with which some evolutionists will defend their position puts most religious fanatics to shame. i love having a logical, rational, emotion-free debate with evolutionists. but quite frankly, they usually resort to name-calling--the hallmark of an intellectually-deficient argument. to show you just how much a faith-based theory evolution is, i've had evolutionists tell me "I don't care if every current belief on evolution is proven false I will always believe evolution is true and continue to develop theories to support it." no joke, i've had that said to me.

so, i don't really care what you believe. it doesn't really have any bearing on me. i'm not gonna come to your house and beat you over the head until you believe just like me. but i'm also not going to demand public funding to support my beliefs, like evolutionists do. if you want to believe in evolution--i say, fine... keep the faith, brother! Wink
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Lester
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well it's not supposed to be a belief system, in the same way athiesm is not supposed to be a belief system, but yes there are people who take it that way, the benefit, in my mind, is that it is not meant to be taken that way, whereas religon is.
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exton
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
phoneguytim wrote:
to show you just how much a faith-based theory evolution is, i've had evolutionists tell me "I don't care if every current belief on evolution is proven false I will always believe evolution is true and continue to develop theories to support it." no joke, i've had that said to me.


That doesn't mean that evolution is faith based; that means that evolution can be faith based - just like every other conceiveable idea.

The difference between evolution, and a religious belief, lies in the fact that accepting evolution does not require faith - it can be taken on its own merits as a matter of reason and evidence.
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TrespassersW
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
The difference between evolution, and a religious belief, lies in the fact that accepting evolution does not require faith - it can be taken on its own merits as a matter of reason and evidence.

Maybe, maybe not.

Let me start out by saying that I believe evolution occurred, though I don't think we understand how it occurred sufficiently to claim that believing evolution doesn't require some level of faith (as you put it). I'd rather call it something like blind acceptance or a leap of faith. Oops, there's that word again.

Here's the thing... evolution is based on the reasonable notion that over time, more useful biological structures will survive and less useful ones will die out, causing organisms to evolve from one form into another. In the case of a bird, evolution tells us that it evolved into a bird from something that was not a bird. Fine. Consider the wing; a very useful structure if you want to fly. Evolution suggests the wing evolved from a limb that was not useful for flying. Fine.

What's not fine; what doesn't make sense to me is this: at some point that limb was useful for walking, or climbing, or clinging to things; it's form at that time was useful. Fast forward to today and it's current form is useful, albeit in a new way. BUT consider the midpoint in the physical evolution of that limb into that wing; at some point, evolution-wise, we had something that was not-limb and not-wing. It was probably not as useful as it had been for walking, or climbing, or clinging to things, but neither was it yet useful for flying.

The theory of evolution tells us that nature favors more useful forms, but in order to get from one useful form to another, that wing had to--for a significant period of time--evolve into a LESS useful form. Why would it do so? The theory of evolution suggests it wouldn't.

Again, this is not so much an argument against the theory of evolution as an example of what we don't yet understand about that theory. We don't understand quite a lot about how it happens, yet so many people accept it as absolute fact. Surely that is a kind of faith.

(Of course, it's quite possible someone else here knows more than I on the subject and can explain this in such a way that it need not be taken on faith. If so, I look forward to learning more.) Cool
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