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Lester
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
To say that it isn't realistic is to say that these companies won't go to any lengths to increase their profit margins, which we've shown, they have.
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exton
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
To say that it isn't realistic is to say that these companies won't go to any lengths to increase their profit margins, which we've shown, they have.


Read the whole thing lester. What i said was an AND statement, not an OR statement.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I would view the researchers in the same light i view the corporation, and as for bear any fruits, hello, he just cured aids, thats a big enough mind trip for anyone get lost on.
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someguy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: for exton Reply with quote
ok Ive read through all these posts and I have to say exton lester and phunk make good points about the nature of big pharma despite all the chemtrail/unicorn bickering. as a pharmacy student and someone who has worked in labs dedicated to finding cures and vaccines for cancer and aids I can say that you are all naive to the practical methods required to create such treatments. building a virus was not possible in 1959 but it is childsplay to bioengineer viruses in 2007. you just cut and splice the genetic template of an adenovirus in order to modify surface proteins to target specific cell receptors which are the key that opens up a cell's door allowing whatever genetic material the virus has contained within it to enter the cell. once the desired transcript is inside the cell, nature takes over and translates the DNA into protein. so yes it is very easy to design a virus to either treat or prevent HIV infection. the problem is the HIV virus in one patient is not the same virus in another patient. the cure itself would have to be taylor made to the individual in order to work (much in the same way you need a new flu vaccine every year). for this reason it would be very difficult to see significant results in one miraculous experiment in which every patient/mouse is cured or vaccinated. but it might be enough to lead a scientist down the correct path to creating a poyvalent vaccine which cures all forms of Hiv. of course in 2007 a big pharma scientist reaching this pot of gold at the end of the rainbow would only lead to revenue loss. what usually happens (in industry) is the head scientist is told by his profit driven executive boss to discontinue research on this prototype cure or else "bad things" could happen. no not by torturing their kids but by firing them and preventing them from working in a high profile research positions anywhere else. meanwhile the select few who posses knowledge of the prototype cure continue the research behind closed doors and wait for the right time to release the final version of the vaccine when it is economically viable. now sometimes the prototype drug is shit and will never be released because it simply doesn't work. this is also why independent researchers who depend on NIH grants (and therefore positive results) fail. it is kinda like trying to crack a password through brute force. it requires too much time and money to try to find a vaccine through guessing when you only have a small lab and 1 year to find a true cure. in addition, the last thing a scientist wants to do is find a cure for cancer or aids while working under a research institution or corporation. you do the work they get the money. many try to "retire" and "rediscover" their prototype cure so they can be the billionaires. i`ve seen this happen and trust me no one ever does it on their own. data faking, sabotage, and threats which hold legal merit due to non-disclosure agreements happen all the time. withholding cures and vaccines makes perfect economic sense and big pharma has the ability prevent scientists from discovering a cure. scientists aren't just going to stumble upon a cure. it takes decades and the process can be halted at many many points. in summary i cant say for sure if there really is a cure for aids, but exton, the pharmaceutical companies do indeed have the means to suppress the discovery of such cures even if there were rogue/moralistic scientists within their ranks. besides if necessity is the mother of invention and there is a BIG need for such cures/vaccines and when you consider that the biological sciences move at a pace proportional to the money being thrown at it, we should have found one by now
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exton
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: for exton Reply with quote
someguy wrote:
building a virus was not possible in 1959 but it is childsplay to bioengineer viruses in 2007. you just cut and splice the genetic template of an adenovirus in order to modify surface proteins to target specific cell receptors which are the key that opens up a cell's door allowing whatever genetic material the virus has contained within it to enter the cell. once the desired transcript is inside the cell, nature takes over and translates the DNA into protein. so yes it is very easy to design a virus to either treat or prevent HIV infection.


Are you sure you're a student of such things?

If you are, then you should know that conceptualizing a virus takes more than just figuring out the right surface receptors on a cell. And putting that virus together is another matter entirely.

And you should certainly know that you can't prevent HIV infection by using a custom tailored virus.

Quote:

the problem is the HIV virus in one patient is not the same virus in another patient. the cure itself would have to be taylor made to the individual in order to work (much in the same way you need a new flu vaccine every year). for this reason it would be very difficult to see significant results in one miraculous experiment in which every patient/mouse is cured or vaccinated. but it might be enough to lead a scientist down the correct path to creating a poyvalent vaccine which cures all forms of Hiv.


Uh, no, it wouldn't.

Once again, if you really do study these things, you should know better. Not only are there multiple different strains of HIV, but new ones come about all the time. HIV mutates frequently.

Quote:
in summary i cant say for sure if there really is a cure for aids, but exton, the pharmaceutical companies do indeed have the means to suppress the discovery of such cures even if there were rogue/moralistic scientists within their ranks.


No, they don't. There is only one means that will reliably shut someone up: killing them. Otherwise, it's a matter of coercion, which is by no means reliable.

Quote:

besides if necessity is the mother of invention and there is a BIG need for such cures/vaccines and when you consider that the biological sciences move at a pace proportional to the money being thrown at it, we should have found one by now


Or: It's not as simple as you seem to believe that it is.

And for fuck's sake, use paragraphs. I'm not reading another one of your posts if you don't use paragraphs.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: for exton Reply with quote
Quote:

Are you sure you're a student of such things?

If you are, then you should know that conceptualizing a virus takes more than just figuring out the right surface receptors on a cell. And putting that virus together is another matter entirely.

And you should certainly know that you can't prevent HIV infection by using a custom tailored virus.
the surface proteins on viral capsids are like the viruses eyes, ears, and hands. it allows the virus to seek out certain cells such as hiv infected cells and then interact with said cell. believe it or not it really is that easy to build a virus because you can buy these virus templates over the internet and then you just splice in the desired protein in the appropriate region again using very cheap materials over the internet. it takes about 2 weeks to get enough virus to perform a months worth of experiments. trust me - building a virus is childsplay. building the right one just takes a lot of time and money. we've spent billions and had decades [/quote]
Quote:
the problem is the HIV virus in one patient is not the same virus in another patient. the cure itself would have to be taylor made to the individual in order to work (much in the same way you need a new flu vaccine every year). for this reason it would be very difficult to see significant results in one miraculous experiment in which every patient/mouse is cured or vaccinated. but it might be enough to lead a scientist down the correct path to creating a poyvalent vaccine which cures all forms of Hiv.

Quote:

Uh, no, it wouldn't.

Once again, if you really do study these things, you should know better. Not only are there multiple different strains of HIV, but new ones come about all the time. HIV mutates frequently.
im confused aren't you agreeing with me? yes thats what i was saying was the hiv virus mutates frequently which is why you need a poylvalent vaccine
Quote:
in summary i cant say for sure if there really is a cure for aids, but exton, the pharmaceutical companies do indeed have the means to suppress the discovery of such cures even if there were rogue/moralistic scientists within their ranks.

Quote:

No, they don't. There is only one means that will reliably shut someone up: killing them. Otherwise, it's a matter of coercion, which is by no means reliable.
you've never worked in science. studied it maybe but you've spent too much time out of the box. scientists are so tuned in to the mainstream that when their boss tells them to stop working on a promising technology, they don't bat an eye. every scientist i've ever known besides myself was total sheep.
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exton
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:05 am    Post subject: Re: for exton Reply with quote
Anonymous wrote:
the surface proteins on viral capsids are like the viruses eyes, ears, and hands. it allows the virus to seek out certain cells such as hiv infected cells and then interact with said cell. believe it or not it really is that easy to build a virus because you can buy these virus templates over the internet and then you just splice in the desired protein in the appropriate region again using very cheap materials over the internet.


Do you have links to such websites?

Quote:

im confused aren't you agreeing with me? yes thats what i was saying was the hiv virus mutates frequently which is why you need a poylvalent vaccine


I was under the impresison that a polyvalent vaccine treated multiple different strains. That is to say, i was note aware they such vaccines automatically changed over time with the viral infections they're meant to treat.

Quote:

Quote:

No, they don't. There is only one means that will reliably shut someone up: killing them. Otherwise, it's a matter of coercion, which is by no means reliable.
you've never worked in science. studied it maybe but you've spent too much time out of the box. scientists are so tuned in to the mainstream that when their boss tells them to stop working on a promising technology, they don't bat an eye. every scientist i've ever known besides myself was total sheep.


Besides yourself, of course. Naturally, there's only one honest man in the industry, and that man is yourself.

Did you know most conspiracy theorists enjoy the feeling of being at the center of the narrative they spin?
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