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HIV cure suppressed?

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exton
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
They were intending to harm people! They were intending to do it because it made them money,


In order for it to be true that they were intending to harm people, it would have to be the case that they would be less inclined to sell it if it were not tainted.

But that's not the case. They would have sold it with or without the taint. Harming people has absolutely nothing to do with their decision.


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I don't think it's malicious, I'm sure they would have prefferred if there was no taint, and they probably didn't take pleasure in their pain, but they definately meant to hurt them, just like if I sell you apple sauce with razor blades in it I intend to hurt you, now it may not have been me that put them there, but I knew about it, and I sold the apple sauce anyways, because I wanted money and didn't care about you getting all cut up.


That's exactly my point. In such a case, you can not be said to be intending to harm people, because you don't care about whether or not any harm occurs. Harm is not your intention, it is a potential byproduct of your intentions.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You are intending to harm people for money, it was a way of getting money, if I kill my father to get life insurance, it doesn't matter if I am apathetic about his death, it's still intention.
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exton
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
You are intending to harm people for money, it was a way of getting money, if I kill my father to get life insurance, it doesn't matter if I am apathetic about his death, it's still intention.


And in that instance, your getting money is contingent upon your father dying. In order to get the money, your father must die.

That is not the case with the blood. They would have made money off of the blood regardless of the taint. The taint had nothing to do with their ability to make a profit.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Of course it did, they had to sell the stuff with the taint to make money, if they had not sold it then they would have had to just dumped the whole lot, and lost heaps of money, or remove the taint somehow, which I assume would be expensive if possible.
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exton
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
Of course it did, they had to sell the stuff with the taint to make money, if they had not sold it then they would have had to just dumped the whole lot, and lost heaps of money, or remove the taint somehow, which I assume would be expensive if possible.


Right. But consider this: what if it didn't have the taint?

What if there was still something "wrong" with it, but it was something really stupid? Like, say, the FDA thought it looked a little too red for their liking, and prohibited it from being used in america.

There, we have the exact same situation, except no taint. And we have the exact same outcome - they would sell the blood elsewhere to make some money.

And that's what i mean about intending to cause harm. Their ability to make money from that blood was not contingent upon its being deadly. They would have made money from it with or without killing people. Their intention was to sell it - harming people had nothing to do with it.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
So if all I had to do was hit my father for a hundred thousand dollars it would be just as moral as if I killed him for it because I was just doing it for the money??
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exton
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
So if all I had to do was hit my father for a hundred thousand dollars it would be just as moral as if I killed him for it because I was just doing it for the money??


I don't claim that they acted morally. I think they acted very immorally indeed.

What i claim is that they did not act maliciously. I claim that evil, or the desire to harm people, was not a factor in selling the blood.
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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
Lester wrote:
So if all I had to do was hit my father for a hundred thousand dollars it would be just as moral as if I killed him for it because I was just doing it for the money??


I don't claim that they acted morally. I think they acted very immorally indeed.

What i claim is that they did not act maliciously. I claim that evil, or the desire to harm people, was not a factor in selling the blood.


okay, but how is that any different from a pharmaceutical company finding a cure for HIV and not marketing it until they have sold and the pattens have expired on the HIV drugs that they have developed, tested and are waiting to get approval from the FDA to sell?

they are not doing it to let people die, they are just thinking about the money.
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exton
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jusdeadphunky wrote:

okay, but how is that any different from a pharmaceutical company finding a cure for HIV and not marketing it until they have sold and the pattens have expired on the HIV drugs that they have developed, tested and are waiting to get approval from the FDA to sell?


Morally? It isn't.

Practically? Well, like i've said, there's no way they'll be able to cover up an HIV cure, even if they want to.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Your not putting much faith in the power of money.
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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
jusdeadphunky wrote:

okay, but how is that any different from a pharmaceutical company finding a cure for HIV and not marketing it until they have sold and the pattens have expired on the HIV drugs that they have developed, tested and are waiting to get approval from the FDA to sell?


Morally? It isn't.

Practically? Well, like i've said, there's no way they'll be able to cover up an HIV cure, even if they want to.


they can't say they are conducting clinical trials on it to the people who discovered it then say it is not working or it is killing people?
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exton
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jusdeadphunky wrote:

they can't say they are conducting clinical trials on it to the people who discovered it then say it is not working or it is killing people?


Sure, they can. But so what? In the unlikely event that a researcher falls for that sort of thing in the first place (since the chemical interactions in the body are, to a very large extent, forseeable - bullshiting a good biochemist wouldn't easy), it doesn't matter anyway. The research is still shared and published, and thus scrutinized by all sorts of other researchers

After all, when you're trying to engineering something, you have to know what doesn't work and why just as much as you have to know what does work.
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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
jusdeadphunky wrote:

they can't say they are conducting clinical trials on it to the people who discovered it then say it is not working or it is killing people?


Sure, they can. But so what? In the unlikely event that a researcher falls for that sort of thing in the first place (since the chemical interactions in the body are, to a very large extent, forseeable - bullshiting a good biochemist wouldn't easy), it doesn't matter anyway. The research is still shared and published, and thus scrutinized by all sorts of other researchers

After all, when you're trying to engineering something, you have to know what doesn't work and why just as much as you have to know what does work.


dude, they absolutely can and would suppress a cure for HIV.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why are the researchers supposed to be epitomes of morality?? The head honcho could easily fake the results and then tell only the president of the company, or the director of the board maybe, and this would be even more likely if the director/president put the head researcher in charge for specifically that reason.
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exton
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
Why are the researchers supposed to be epitomes of morality??


They aren't.

It's not about morality. It's about motivation.

When people spend years on research, and their research bears the fruit they've been looking for, they generally share it. That's human nature and the scientific method as well (peer review).

Is it even remotely possible that a corporation would conspire to hide a cure, and a researcher would find no satisfaction in the fruits of his labor? Sure. Anything's possible.

But it isn't realistic. Not at all.
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