Register :: Log in :: Profile :: Mail   


Hell
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    LVC Home // Atheism Versus Religion
Author Message
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 2774

PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well then perhaps we lack the insight and ingenuity to detect souls? I'm not saying that we do, but you can't just assume we are meat machines with no evidence and then say that I can't assume a soul.

Whats scientifically? Many people all trying to affect things that they couldn't possibly affect by themselves becoming more focused? Cause... THAT happened...

The way affirmations would work would be to affect things subtly, not showy automatic effects like cloudbusting, it's much harder to disprove that way Razz

Well either proof would do for me, but you can't just state something without giving proof, at least there is semblance of proof for humans being more than machines, we're the only animals with conciousness.

Ohh come on, if EVERYONE was poor, you wouldn't dread being poor, because it would be the natural state, but the fact that SOME people are rich makes being poor that much worse. And before you say that poor wouldn't exist without rich as it is defined by it's relation, I would posit that the same thing applies to heaven and hell.

Maybe he doesn't, maybe he does, you don't KNOW that. All I'm saying is there is the possibility, and thats all you need.

Exactly hell is supernatural, so if we assume that than the norm is the supernatural, which would be seances would be in effect, again, it's the POOSSIBILITY that is the important part.

Not true, perhaps they simply have the ability to SHAPE energy to their whim? That doesn't need energy, it is just transforming it from one state to another.
But what I meant was that as more souls go in there needs to be more fire to burn them, which means more energy needs to come from somewhere.
Back to top
Oolon Colluphid
Not a Newbie
Not a Newbie


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 133
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just to add a little food for thought to the conversation….
Quote:

Well either proof would do for me, but you can't just state something without giving proof,….


Well, I’m not going to defend “meat machine”, but I would say that there is definitely more biological evidence to support something like this then there is evidence to support that there is a supernatural heaven or hell.

Quote:
at least there is semblance of proof for humans being more than machines, we're the only animals with conciousness.


Ahh, but are we?

“One of the reasons it is unclear whether or not animals may properly be said to be conscious is that the term has no universal definition as applied to humans. Is consciousness equivalent to awareness? To attention? Cognition? Perception? Memory? Imagination? All of these? Much more?”

http://www.flatrock.org.nz/top.....scious.htm

If it were true that we could apply a “consciousness” definition to other species that exist, would we be then reduced to a type of “meat machine” in a natural world, or would we then apply animals to be at a higher level of existence than we have in the past? If animals were then said to have “consciousness”, would they go to a heaven or hell? Is this why we don’t apply animals to having a consciousness at all?
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 2774

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That heaven and hell exist is one of the stipulations of the questions, it does not matter whether in reality they do or not, in the theoretical question, they do. As far as I know there is no evidence to prove that we have no souls, biological or otherwise.

I define conciousness as the ability to ask the question, "Why am I here?" but I think the dictionary definition is pretty good too;
"Adjective
1. a. Having an awareness of one's environment and one's own existence, sensations, and thoughts."

I read that article, and am of the opinion that knowing that you know is certianly a requisite of conciuosness.
Back to top
AconservativeEducator
Newbie


Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 2
Location: OK

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm not going to explain to you why Hell exists unless you are open to hearing the answer without spewing to me that it is "MY Hell and not yours" crap.

If anyone would like to learn more about the origin of Hell I'd be happy to reply to you via private messaging. I do, however, find it comical to read all the beliefs, or lack there of, in this thread. Seems to me if you're going to comment on a subject you may want to research it first.
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 2774

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
No, please do, the lack of a strong christian debater in this forum probably does affect it's validity, but I have read the bible, and been raised christian, but I'm probably not an expert on the subject, mainly what I know of the christian hell is from Dante's Inferno Razz
Back to top
Docsmitter
Known Associate
Known Associate


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 308
Location: CA LE FOR NYE YAY

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I view and accept the bible as part of its creation due to attempt to bring law and religion together. Moral guidelines in a sense. As for souls, I doubt there can be an afterlife? what goes on? Thought is linked to life, and death to absence, so how can you be sentient in past life?
Back to top
exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 2508

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
AconservativeEducator wrote:
I'm not going to explain to you why Hell exists unless you are open to hearing the answer without spewing to me that it is "MY Hell and not yours" crap.


Well i don't think hell exists at all, so i'm certainly open to any ideas you happen to have.

Tell us.
Back to top
Johnguitars
Newbie


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 47
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:51 pm    Post subject: Hell Reply with quote
Arguements for the existance of Hell.

1 Heavy metal bands say it does exist.(This also proves Christianity to be the only valid faith as, so far as I am aware, no other religion gets slammed!)

2 Atheists spend enormous amounts of computer time trying to assure one another that it is all a big lie. They spend very little time trying to disprove the tooth fairy or Santa because yet a these are oft times equated to faith in Christ. Still I suppose neither of these threaten their lifestyles.

3 Suppose just for a moment that there is an afterlife, a paradise to which we can aspire.
How does the god of this place deal with those who will not abide by the rules? He could take away their free will but that would rather defeat the purpose of giving it in the first place.
Without some form of exile or separation, heaven would quickly become just like Earth. We would find ourselves in a paradise with locks, burglar alarms, insurance agents and Nazis, and that would be no paradise at all.

I submit that if there is a Heaven, then Hell is an unfortunate but essential by-product.
Back to top
exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 2508

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: Hell Reply with quote
Johnguitars wrote:

2 Atheists spend enormous amounts of computer time trying to assure one another that it is all a big lie.


Actually, we don't. We generally consider the matter to be settled.

Quote:

3 Suppose just for a moment that there is an afterlife, a paradise to which we can aspire.
How does the god of this place deal with those who will not abide by the rules?


Make them disappear.

Quote:

He could take away their free will but that would rather defeat the purpose of giving it in the first place.


That's assuming that they have free will. There's a good case to be made that omniscient gods and free will are mutually exclusive.

Quote:

Without some form of exile or separation, heaven would quickly become just like Earth. We would find ourselves in a paradise with locks, burglar alarms, insurance agents and Nazis, and that would be no paradise at all.


In heaven, being a supernatural place, we could all have our own little heavens, and interact only with other people that we want to interact with.

Quote:

I submit that if there is a Heaven, then Hell is an unfortunate but essential by-product.


The existence of heaven is also questionable.
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 2774

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Hell Reply with quote
Quote:
Quote:

He could take away their free will but that would rather defeat the purpose of giving it in the first place.


That's assuming that they have free will. There's a good case to be made that omniscient gods and free will are mutually exclusive.


Yes, there is, I think I posted it somewhere on this forum.

Quote:
Quote:

Without some form of exile or separation, heaven would quickly become just like Earth. We would find ourselves in a paradise with locks, burglar alarms, insurance agents and Nazis, and that would be no paradise at all.


In heaven, being a supernatural place, we could all have our own little heavens, and interact only with other people that we want to interact with.


Sounds like anarchy.
Back to top
exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 2508

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: Hell Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
Quote:

In heaven, being a supernatural place, we could all have our own little heavens, and interact only with other people that we want to interact with.


Sounds like anarchy.


Kind of. But anarchy only makes sense when we all live in and experience the same world.

In a supernatural heaven, that context is no longer valid.
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 2774

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I guess, kind of goes with the whole Paradise Lost;

"the mind is it's own place, and in itself, can make a heav'n of hell, a hell of heaven"

Because one persons heaven could be another person hell...
Back to top
ringwormbettie
Not a Newbie
Not a Newbie


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The only people that are worthy of going to hell are people that have a heart full of hate and a mind set on destruction. And God is so powerful that he can show them the error of their ways when they come to the afterlife and they will be forgiven. That is what I wish would happen, but I won't know until I die and neither will any of you.
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 2774

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ringwormbettie wrote:
The only people that are worthy of going to hell are people that have a heart full of hate and a mind set on destruction. And God is so powerful that he can show them the error of their ways when they come to the afterlife and they will be forgiven. That is what I wish would happen, but I won't know until I die and neither will any of you.


No-one is 'worthy' of going to hell, it's subjective rules imposed upon us by either our collective conciousness or some god-being, but hell would still be better than nothing.
Back to top
ringwormbettie
Not a Newbie
Not a Newbie


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
JesusLopezViejo wrote:
I think the idea of hell was introduced to strike fear in the the heart of man.

I don't believe in it.

I think when you die, you will decompose, feeding the maggots that will always remember you as a good meal. But you live on through them...metaphorically speaking.


Same here.
Back to top
Post new topic   Reply to topic    LVC Home // Atheism Versus Religion All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Add to My Yahoo! Add to Google

Politics Blogs - Blog Top Sites Politics Blogs Politics