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exton
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jusdeadphunky wrote:
the DU...i think that every person in an authority position should be executed for allowing DU to be used. using DU is a crime against humanity and they knew how terrible it is even before it was ever used in combat.

talk about a "smoking gun":

this, from 1987, states that the non-DU armor which DU rounds were fired through, to test its armor piercing capabilities, should be regarded as low level radioactive waste.


You know what else is low-level radioactive waste?

Some of the contents of your smoke detector.
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Xerxes
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
jusdeadphunky wrote:
the DU...i think that every person in an authority position should be executed for allowing DU to be used. using DU is a crime against humanity and they knew how terrible it is even before it was ever used in combat.

talk about a "smoking gun":

this, from 1987, states that the non-DU armor which DU rounds were fired through, to test its armor piercing capabilities, should be regarded as low level radioactive waste.


You know what else is low-level radioactive waste?

Some of the contents of your smoke detector.


And don't forget <microwaves> i.e. ovens and phones
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Xerxes
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
NEVER heat your "Hot Pockets" up at nut level....
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exton
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Microwaves aren't nuclear radiation, and they aren't actually dangerous at the levels your cellphone outputs.

(The oven will give you internal burning, but that's because it's a thousand watts of electromagnetic radiation, at point blank range, jostling the water atoms in your body )

Smoke detectors actually have americium in them. It's how they work; the alpha radiation makes a conductive channel through the air that electrical current passes through. Smoke interrupts the conductive channel.
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Xerxes
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
Microwaves aren't nuclear radiation, and they aren't actually dangerous at the levels your cellphone outputs.

(The oven will give you internal burning, but that's because it's a thousand watts of electromagnetic radiation, at point blank range, jostling the water atoms in your body )

Smoke detectors actually have americium in them. It's how they work; the alpha radiation makes a conductive channel through the air that electrical current passes through. Smoke interrupts the conductive channel.


But, if you stand in front of your mic you can potentially get testes cancer or brain cancer from a cell phone. Microwaves are microwaves. If you held a cow up in front of a cell tower, it would cook it from the inside out. I don't think it has come out yet, but I think that it will be proven about phones for sure. The waves from the signal pass right through your brain, it can't be good for you.
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Xerxes
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
And radar guns for cops too...
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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
jusdeadphunky wrote:
Article two, protocol III of the 1980 UN Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons states: "It is prohibited in all circumstances to make the civilian population as such, individual civilians or civilian objects, the object of attack by incendiary weapons."


The united states did not sign that one (though perhaps they ought to have).

And, if you'll note the language of it, it prohibits attacks against civilians, not against military targets.

Quote:

1993 Chemical Weapons Convention which bans the use of any "toxic chemical" weapons which causes "death, harm or temporary incapacitation to humans or animals through their chemical action on life processes".


Whether or not WP is in violation of this one depends on how it's used; that is to say, it's only a chemical weapon if its intended method of destruction is chemical in nature.

It's worth noting that i don't condone the use of WP, i just happent to enjoy arguing on the internet.


when used to send signals and set smoke screens there is no problem with using WP when it is dropped indiscriminately from helicopters it targets everyone and it is destructive because of its chemical nature.
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exton
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Xerxes wrote:

But, if you stand in front of your mic you can potentially get testes cancer


There isn't an iota of radiation coming out of your microwave. It's all confined inside.

Quote:

or brain cancer from a cell phone. Microwaves are microwaves. If you held a cow up in front of a cell tower, it would cook it from the inside out. I don't think it has come out yet, but I think that it will be proven about phones for sure. The waves from the signal pass right through your brain, it can't be good for you.


It should be completely harmless, really.

Microwaves are no different from any other radiowaves. The only reason that we use them for cooking is that they make water molecules spin, which makes substances heat up a little.

It certainly shouldn't cause cancer directly - microwave radiation isn't ionizing radiation. It can't damage DNA, and it can't make free radicals that damage DNA.

I say "directly" because, if you get cooked, the regrowth from healing could lead indirectly to cancer.
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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
jusdeadphunky wrote:
the DU...i think that every person in an authority position should be executed for allowing DU to be used. using DU is a crime against humanity and they knew how terrible it is even before it was ever used in combat.

talk about a "smoking gun":

this, from 1987, states that the non-DU armor which DU rounds were fired through, to test its armor piercing capabilities, should be regarded as low level radioactive waste.


You know what else is low-level radioactive waste?

Some of the contents of your smoke detector.


DU is perfectly fine until you fire it as a projectile and it explodes (it actually ignites) upon contact. we are dumping thousands of tons of the shit all over iraq and afghanistan. it is the case of gulf war illness and it has directly given veterans of this iraq war radiation poisoning and that is a proven fact. it is essentially exactly what the scare tactic "dirty bomb" scenario is.

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exton
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jusdeadphunky wrote:
when it is dropped indiscriminately from helicopters it targets everyone and it is destructive because of its chemical nature.


It's the intention that matters, not the outcome, in terms of whether or not it's a chemical weapon.
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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
jusdeadphunky wrote:
when it is dropped indiscriminately from helicopters it targets everyone and it is destructive because of its chemical nature.


It's the intention that matters, not the outcome, in terms of whether or not it's a chemical weapon.


what do you mean in regards to this?

they dropped it from helicopters with the intent to burn people alive
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exton
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jusdeadphunky wrote:

DU is perfectly fine until you fire it as a projectile and it explodes (it actually ignites) upon contact. we are dumping thousands of tons of the shit all over iraq and afghanistan. it is the case of gulf war illness and it has directly given veterans of this iraq war radiation poisoning and that is a proven fact.


I've never claimed that it isn't an environmental hazard.

That doesn't make it outlawed by the geneva conventions.

Quote:

it is essentially exactly what the scare tactic "dirty bomb" scenario is.


I terms of the accumulated waste of many months or years of combat? Sure.

It's not actually analagous to a dirty bomb, though - you couldn't make a dirt bomb with DU.
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exton
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jusdeadphunky wrote:

what do you mean in regards to this?

they dropped it from helicopters with the intent to burn people alive


Trying to burn military targets is okay (under geneva).
Trying to burn civilians isn't.
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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
jusdeadphunky wrote:

DU is perfectly fine until you fire it as a projectile and it explodes (it actually ignites) upon contact. we are dumping thousands of tons of the shit all over iraq and afghanistan. it is the case of gulf war illness and it has directly given veterans of this iraq war radiation poisoning and that is a proven fact.


I've never claimed that it isn't an environmental hazard.

That doesn't make it outlawed by the geneva conventions.

Quote:

it is essentially exactly what the scare tactic "dirty bomb" scenario is.


I terms of the accumulated waste of many months or years of combat? Sure.

It's not actually analagous to a dirty bomb, though - you couldn't make a dirt bomb with DU.


okay it is not instantaneous as the "dirty bomb" scare tactic scenario would be, but it does the same thing.

in the dirty bomb scenario, a conventional explosion would occur inflicting immediate damage, but the most significant damage would occur from the radiological matter that would be disbursed by the explosion, rendering a certain radius from the explosion uninhabitable for thousands of years waiting for the half life to occur. the same thing happens with DU, except no one wants to admit this. there are already areas of iraq documented to be so polluted from DU that they are unsafe for humans to be in them (i.e. the NY national guard unit, which has been that way since gulf war I)
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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
jusdeadphunky wrote:

what do you mean in regards to this?

they dropped it from helicopters with the intent to burn people alive


Trying to burn military targets is okay (under geneva).
Trying to burn civilians isn't.


i haven't listened to this for at least a year now so i can't comment on specifics but thought i would share...this is how i learned of WP

http://www.npr.org/templates/s.....Id=5019073
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