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Lester
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
TrespassersW wrote:
Any news source is going to interview people on both sides of an issue


No, that's talk shows and entertainment.

Actual news involves finding and showing actual facts, not getting two polar opinions and arguing about them.


Old Timer. It's all edu-tainment now.
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TrespassersW
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
TrespassersW wrote:
And here's a stumper for you... Wink what if one of the opinions being shared is that the facts you are being given on an important topic are erroneous?

If there's reason to believe that an alleged fact is false, that's where OTHER facts come in to show that this claim (about the original fact being false) is true!

And that's where the other person comes in. (Thanks for playing.) Cool
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Xerxes
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Actual news is a guy wearing a suit sitting behind a desk with no digital crawl around the base in a dimly lit studio, preferably smoking a cigarette with stark lighting overhead to accentuate the cigarette smoke. And then he tells you the truth, as they have confirmed and found it to be that day with zero opinion, or even voice inflection involved. And zero intervention or "Filter" standing in between the newscasters mouth and you, the viewer. It is then when you make an informed decision, having had watched several equally un-biased news sources. News in this country retired many years ago.
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TrespassersW
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Xerxes wrote:
Actual news is a guy wearing a suit sitting behind a desk with no digital crawl around the base in a dimly lit studio, preferably smoking a cigarette with stark lighting overhead to accentuate the cigarette smoke. And then he tells you the truth, as they have confirmed and found it to be that day with zero opinion, or even voice inflection involved. And zero intervention or "Filter" standing in between the newscasters mouth and you, the viewer.

Fact: Global temperature measurements over time suggest a warming trend.
Fact: The accuracy of global temperature measurements is in question.
Fact: Atmospheric CO2 traps heat.
Fact: Human activity contributes to increases in atmospheric CO2.
Fact: Computer models link human activity to measured global warming.
Fact: The validity of those computer models is in question.
Fact: Some ice sheets on Antarctica have been thinning for years.
Fact: Other ice sheets on Antarctica have been getting thicker over the same period.
...

Xerxes wrote:
It is then when you make an informed decision, having had watched several equally un-biased news sources. News in this country retired many years ago.[/b]

News in this country used to be dominated by newspapers, and in every major market you had a Republican paper and a Democrat paper. It was right there on the masthead. There was no presumption of balance, aside from the assumption that one paper told one side of the story and the other told the other. The myth of an unbiased press is a recent fiction, put forth by people who don't really want a lack of bias, they just don't like that we are increasingly being offered alternatives to the prevaling media bias today.

The intelligent news consumer presumes that everything he or she comes across was written or produced with an inherent bias, and takes pains to discern that bias so as to mitigate its influence on the formation of important opinions. Others just assume that CNN or Fox or PBS or Al Jazeera always shoot straight and gobble up whatever gets shoved their way as long as it agrees with his or her personal biases.
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exton
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
TrespassersW wrote:
exton wrote:
TrespassersW wrote:
And here's a stumper for you... Wink what if one of the opinions being shared is that the facts you are being given on an important topic are erroneous?

If there's reason to believe that an alleged fact is false, that's where OTHER facts come in to show that this claim (about the original fact being false) is true!

And that's where the other person comes in. (Thanks for playing.) Cool


I have not, and do not, suggest that we present information using something other than people narrating. Most people wouldn't like getting their news from computer synthesized voices or animated characters.
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TrespassersW
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
TrespassersW wrote:
exton wrote:
If there's reason to believe that an alleged fact is false, that's where OTHER facts come in to show that this claim (about the original fact being false) is true!

And that's where the other person comes in.

I have not, and do not, suggest that we present information using something other than people narrating. Most people wouldn't like getting their news from computer synthesized voices or animated characters.

I bet it depends on what voices and characters they offer. Rolling Eyes
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Xerxes
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
TrespassersW wrote:
Fact: Global temperature measurements over time suggest a warming trend.
Fact: The accuracy of global temperature measurements is in question.
Fact: Atmospheric CO2 traps heat.
Fact: Human activity contributes to increases in atmospheric CO2.
Fact: Computer models link human activity to measured global warming.
Fact: The validity of those computer models is in question.
Fact: Some ice sheets on Antarctica have been thinning for years.
Fact: Other ice sheets on Antarctica have been getting thicker over the same period.


I am no tree hugger but let's assume you are right, which you aren't. We are slowly poisoning the only scrap of real estate around, in the galaxy, that we know of. Isn't it worth a little preservation just to breathe some clean air once in a while. Or, drink some water out of the tap that does not have un-diluted chlorine crystals in it, and smells like swimming pool water?
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TrespassersW
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Xerxes wrote:
TrespassersW wrote:
Fact: Global temperature measurements over time suggest a warming trend.
Fact: The accuracy of global temperature measurements is in question.
Fact: Atmospheric CO2 traps heat.
Fact: Human activity contributes to increases in atmospheric CO2.
Fact: Computer models link human activity to measured global warming.
Fact: The validity of those computer models is in question.
Fact: Some ice sheets on Antarctica have been thinning for years.
Fact: Other ice sheets on Antarctica have been getting thicker over the same period.

I am no tree hugger but let's assume you are right, which you aren't.

(Sigh...) Okay, which specific statement are you claiming is wrong? Rolling Eyes
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Xerxes
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
TrespassersW wrote:
Xerxes wrote:
TrespassersW wrote:
Fact: Global temperature measurements over time suggest a warming trend.
Fact: The accuracy of global temperature measurements is in question.
Fact: Atmospheric CO2 traps heat.
Fact: Human activity contributes to increases in atmospheric CO2.
Fact: Computer models link human activity to measured global warming.
Fact: The validity of those computer models is in question.
Fact: Some ice sheets on Antarctica have been thinning for years.
Fact: Other ice sheets on Antarctica have been getting thicker over the same period.

I am no tree hugger but let's assume you are right, which you aren't.

(Sigh...) Okay, which specific statement are you claiming is wrong? Rolling Eyes


You missed the point of my question.....
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Lester
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Xerxes wrote:
Actual news is a guy wearing a suit sitting behind a desk with no digital crawl around the base in a dimly lit studio, preferably smoking a cigarette with stark lighting overhead to accentuate the cigarette smoke. And then he tells you the truth, as they have confirmed and found it to be that day with zero opinion, or even voice inflection involved. And zero intervention or "Filter" standing in between the newscasters mouth and you, the viewer. It is then when you make an informed decision, having had watched several equally un-biased news sources. News in this country retired many years ago.


Agreed.
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exton
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If only real life were like the x-files...
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Lester
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I love the x-files!

Although David Duchovny in Red Shoe Diaries was fairly good.
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TrespassersW
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Xerxes wrote:
You missed the point of my question...

No, I didn't even read your question. I stopped reading at the point where you claimed I was not right. I stopped there because once I read that I very much wanted to know what you meant by that statement, since I believe that every one of the statements in my little global warming example are factually accurate. (And I believe I can prove it.)

So again, where am I not right?
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Xerxes
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
TrespassersW wrote:
Xerxes wrote:
You missed the point of my question...

No, I didn't even read your question. I stopped reading at the point where you claimed I was not right. I stopped there because once I read that I very much wanted to know what you meant by that statement, since I believe that every one of the statements in my little global warming example are factually accurate. (And I believe I can prove it.)

So again, where am I not right?


The thing that I meant you were not right about is not on that list (I just grabbed them because they were part of your environmental argument). I don't care at all if ALL of those stats are right. They are still not justification for being irresponsible. You are not right for not answering my question about whether it is worth the clean air and water to just stop poisoning the planet.
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TrespassersW
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Xerxes wrote:
TrespassersW wrote:
Xerxes wrote:
You missed the point of my question...

No, I didn't even read your question. I stopped reading at the point where you claimed I was not right. I stopped there because once I read that I very much wanted to know what you meant by that statement, since I believe that every one of the statements in my little global warming example are factually accurate. (And I believe I can prove it.)

So again, where am I not right?

The thing that I meant you were not right about is not on that list (I just grabbed them because they were part of your environmental argument). I don't care at all if ALL of those stats are right. They are still not justification for being irresponsible. You are not right for not answering my question about whether it is worth the clean air and water to just stop poisoning the planet.

Um, you asked your question after writing that I was wrong. How can you now claim that you meant I was wrong for not answering a question you hadn't yet asked?

Here, let me help your memory...

Xerxes wrote:
TrespassersW wrote:
Fact: Global temperature measurements over time suggest a warming trend.
Fact: The accuracy of global temperature measurements is in question.
Fact: Atmospheric CO2 traps heat.
Fact: Human activity contributes to increases in atmospheric CO2.
Fact: Computer models link human activity to measured global warming.
Fact: The validity of those computer models is in question.
Fact: Some ice sheets on Antarctica have been thinning for years.
Fact: Other ice sheets on Antarctica have been getting thicker over the same period.


I am no tree hugger but let's assume you are right, [b]which you aren't. We are slowly poisoning the only scrap of real estate around, in the galaxy, that we know of. Isn't it worth a little preservation just to breathe some clean air once in a while. Or, drink some water out of the tap that does not have un-diluted chlorine crystals in it, and smells like swimming pool water?[/b]

Now, since you don't want to answer my question and want me to answer yours, I will.

We aren't slowly poisoning anything.

By virtually every measure the environment of the continental United States is cleaner now than 35 years ago. Water and air quality are greatly improved, and we have more forest cover now than 100 years ago.

Here's a good link:
http://books.nap.edu/openbook......p;page=423

It is true that many less developed nations are polluting in the extreme, and we should certainly help them to move through the early (dirty) stages of industrialization as quickly as possible, bringing them into cleaner technologies so that they can join us in reducing the global impact of human activity on our environment.
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