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Docsmitter
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Amin wrote:
i think there is a documentary called "freedom to fascism" on this subject

i believe it is on google video


I didn't find it, maybe my google is wack or summin.

But I do believe you would enjoy a good read, if you have interest in an updated version of karl marx, called the portable karl marx.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Docsmitter wrote:
Amin wrote:
i think there is a documentary called "freedom to fascism" on this subject

i believe it is on google video


I didn't find it, maybe my google is wack or summin.

But I do believe you would enjoy a good read, if you have interest in an updated version of karl marx, called the portable karl marx.


Communist Manifesto = One of, if not THE best pieces of political literature in the past millenia.
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Amin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
here is the link

http://video.google.com/videop.....to+fascism
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Noureddin
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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G-Max
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Actually, what The Constitution says is this:

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States"

In other words, Congress has the power to generate revenue for the purpose of funding its other enumerated powers.

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated" - Thomas Jefferson
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Lester
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow! It *is* in the constituition.
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Xerxes
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is a topic near and dear to my heart!! Google Congressman Lewis T. McFadden for a terrifying view of the Fed.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just because he's ugly is no reason to come down on the Fed.
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thelast007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 was signed into law but it was a law that was not in line with our U.S. Constitution so it is unconstitutional. PERIOD (Not to mention the Act would not have been accepted by our wise founding fathers.) Very similar to our unconstitutional tax on labor wages that have never even been made law.

We pay interest to PRIVATE BANK OWNERS to borrow our own dollars! WHY? Confused

Why not borrow our dollars for free and not pay interest to PRIVATE OWNERS for our own dollars? Confused

Better yet since our money is our asset to collect on, why not keep the interest from all money borrowed by us and feed the profit back into the pockets of the country instead of private bankers and give the country a lighter tax burden Confused

Do we need a Private Bank to lend our money and keep the profit? Can't we do that?

After all it is it not the country's dollars? Confused

Maybe I am the one going nutts here Rolling Eyes If so please provide a logical and reasonable answer to those questions to help me out.

Why would any informed citizen want the federal reserve to stick around? Shocked

Go to my website www.myspace.com/abolishthefederalreserve and you will really understand all the problems and the total ridiculousness of this system. Evil or Very Mad

Also all the candidates for the Board of Governors and the Chairman are chosen by the Federal Reserve. When someone chooses a selection for you and then ask you to choose from the selection they already chose that is not called a real choice is it? Confused

Sometimes you just have to acknowledge that something is really wrong about the government and this is one thing that is. Idea
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thelast007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:32 pm    Post subject: They understood then. Why can't eveyone understand now? Reply with quote
"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and manipulates the credit of the United States" -- Sen. Barry Goldwater (Rep. AR)

"This [Federal Reserve Act] establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President
[Wilson} signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized....the worst
legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill." --
Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. , 1913

"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created." -- Congressman Charles A.
Lindbergh Sr. , 1913

"The financial system has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board. That Board asministers the finance system by authority of a purely profiteering group. The system is Private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people's money" -- Charles A. Lindbergh Sr., 1923

"The Federal Reserve bank buys government bonds without one penny..." -- Congressman
Wright Patman, Congressional Record, Sept 30, 1941

"We have, in this country, one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board. This evil institution has impoverished the people of the United States and has practically bankrupted our government. It has done this through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it". -- Congressman Louis T. McFadden in 1932 (Rep. Pa)

"The Federal Reserve banks are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen.
There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this nation is run by the
International bankers -- Congressman Louis T. McFadden (Rep. Pa)

"Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are the United States government's institutions.
They are not government institutions. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people
of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign swindlers" -- Congressional
Record 12595-12603 -- Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of the Committee on Banking and
Currency (12 years) June 10, 1932

"I have never seen more Senators express discontent with their jobs....I think the major cause is
that, deep down in our hearts, we have been accomplices in doing something terrible and
unforgiveable to our wonderful country. Deep down in our heart, we know that we have given our
children a legacy of bankruptcy. We have defrauded our country to get ourselves elected." -- John
Danforth (R-Mo)

"These 12 corporations together cover the whole country and monopolize and use for private
gain every dollar of the public currency..." -- Mr. Crozier of Cincinnati, before Senate Banking and
Currency Committee - 1913

"The [Federal Reserve Act] as it stands seems to me to open the way to a vast inflation of the
currency... I do not like to think that any law can be passed that will make it possible to submerge
the gold standard in a flood of irredeemable paper currency." -- Henry
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exton
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
thelast007 wrote:
Very similar to our unconstitutional tax on labor wages that have never even been made law.


Maybe you missed the ammendment to the constitution that says that income tax is legal.
(Yeah, there really is an ammendment for that)

Quote:

We pay interest to PRIVATE BANK OWNERS to borrow our own dollars! WHY? Confused

Why not borrow our dollars for free and not pay interest to PRIVATE OWNERS for our own dollars? Confused


What are you talking about?

Quote:

Better yet since our money is our asset to collect on, why not keep the interest from all money borrowed by us and feed the profit back into the pockets of the country instead of private bankers and give the country a lighter tax burden Confused


...where do you think interest on a loan comes from?

Quote:

Do we need a Private Bank to lend our money and keep the profit? Can't we do that?


They actually give you an infinitesimal piece of the profit - that's what the interest added to your savings account is. And yes, you can loan your own money, if you want to. But you have to start a legitimate buisness (AKA: a bank) to do that. Otherwise you're a loan shark.

Quote:

After all it is it not the country's dollars? Confused

Maybe I am the one going nutts here Rolling Eyes If so please provide a logical and reasonable answer to those questions to help me out.

Why would any informed citizen want the federal reserve to stick around? Shocked

Go to my website www.myspace.com/abolishthefederalreserve and you will really understand all the problems and the total ridiculousness of this system. Evil or Very Mad

Also all the candidates for the Board of Governors and the Chairman are chosen by the Federal Reserve. When someone chooses a selection for you and then ask you to choose from the selection they already chose that is not called a real choice is it? Confused

Sometimes you just have to acknowledge that something is really wrong about the government and this is one thing that is. Idea


I'm getting the sense that you don't know much about how or why we using savings and loans. And why we have the federal reserve. And what the federal reserve actually is.
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thelast007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:39 pm    Post subject: ? Reply with quote
The interest we get from savings is a part of the profit the bank makes on lending our money. So if you want to establish a bank and lend the dollars you borrowed at a lower rate for more that is banking. Fine with me. However go back a level. WHEN THE UNDER LYING BANKS BORROW OUR U.S. DOLLARS FROM THE FED/PRIVATE SECTOR WHY DO PROFITS OF ANY KIND GO TO THE FED INSTEAD OF OUR GOVERNMENT?

AND...

The question I have for you and hopefully you could help shed some light on this subject.

?????????????
Why does our United States government pay to borrow its own money from the Fed. and pay interest on the money it borrows from itself to a private sector/the Fed?
?????????????

Better yet when the Fed lends our U.S. dollars to banks to lend to consumers why shouldn't our government get all of the profit from the interest charged to the under lying banks? Why is the fed in the picture at all? I could understand if it was a government entity. But they are not so all profit escapes the U.S. from this system.

This should be done by the government since it is our government dollars.

Why do we have a private institution doing it and profiting from it?

Our U.S. dollars should be our asset to profit from not the banks.

And please enlighten me where to find the Federal amendment that allow taxes on wages from labor. Please prove me wrong because I do not want to think ill of the government for one second longer in ignorance if i am wrong.

I am always eager to learn : )
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exton
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:24 am    Post subject: Re: ? Reply with quote
thelast007 wrote:
The interest we get from savings is a part of the profit the bank makes on lending our money. So if you want to establish a bank and lend the dollars you borrowed at a lower rate for more that is banking. Fine with me. However go back a level. WHEN THE UNDER LYING BANKS BORROW OUR U.S. DOLLARS FROM THE FED/PRIVATE SECTOR WHY DO PROFITS OF ANY KIND GO TO THE FED INSTEAD OF OUR GOVERNMENT?


To control the supply of money.

The Fed doesn't use the interest to line their pillows with hundreds. It keeps it in reserve. While the money is in reserve, it's almost like it doesn't exist, because it's not being circulated in the economy.

Quote:

?????????????
Why does our United States government pay to borrow its own money from the Fed. and pay interest on the money it borrows from itself to a private sector/the Fed?
?????????????


Oh, no. The reserve isn't really the government's bank account. The government keeps its money in the treasury.

You might think of the fed as a bottomless pit of money. How much enters the economy is determined (inderectly) by the federal reserve board (as far as i know), which is a government agency.

It's like a fishing pole and fishing line...you let out more line, or reel some in, depending on your needs.

The "needs" in this case being the economy of the united states. Interest rates for loans, inflation, that sort of thing.

Quote:

Better yet when the Fed lends our U.S. dollars to banks to lend to consumers why shouldn't our government get all of the profit from the interest charged to the under lying banks? Why is the fed in the picture at all? I could understand if it was a government entity. But they are not so all profit escapes the U.S. from this system.


That's the point. The profit disappears into the reserve (as far as i understand it). No one gets it.

They don't only loan - they also buy loans.

By doing those things, they can change the amount of money running around in the economy. And in doing that, they can regulate the economy as a whole.

Quote:

Why do we have a private institution doing it and profiting from it?


Well...it's not quite private. It's both.

The group of people who ultimately run the operation - the board of governors - is a government agency.

The member banks, the ones who "own" the federal banks (they buy stock in them), are privately owned.

The reason the whole operation isn't government run is, i think, a matter care and efficiency. Having a lot of it be privately owned allows the system to regulate itself to a strong degree. If the government micromanaged it, that would take a lot of time and energy, and could make bad things happen very, very quickly.

Quote:

And please enlighten me where to find the Federal amendment that allow taxes on wages from labor. Please prove me wrong because I do not want to think ill of the government for one second longer in ignorance if i am wrong.

I am always eager to learn : )


Ammendment 16:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/con.....ntxvi.html
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thelast007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The profit from dollars loaned to banks does not go into a reserve.

The "reserve" money does not exist.

If I have 100 in circulation in loans and I am charging 4% interest on the $100 in circulation where is the money to pay the interest going to come from???????

Then you might say well they keep the $4 in reserve for this very reason. That is no longer true. Once the money is loaned out the promise from the debtor is the only backing of the money.

So...

There is only $100 in circulation. The reserve prints $4 out the air that has to be feed into the system and then if they feed too much more than that it'll be inflation and they have to take some out.(Basically lowering and raising the cost of money through interest rates in order to take money in or out the system.)

They make more loans and have to feed in more money to provide the pay for the interest on the loans. When the money made on the loans comes back it is not stored but it is largely privately profited. if it did go back to the government as profit and lowered the tax (or inflation in a sense) on the borrowers then it would work effectively but that is not what happens and that is 1 reason why a house cost $300,000 today and $30,000 yesterday even though goods are more accessible and production is more effective.

The reserve is not reserving.


I see the reserve is not the government bank account but it is a fact that our government borrows from the Federal Reserve. We are charged when we borrow. That is a fact. And we see we have no real reserve just printers so why?

We can manage this system ourselves. We don't need the private sector for this one. I can come to agree on the private sector on about everything except this one.

WHERE DOES THIS MONEY GO? It is not in a reserve. Please show me where it is. Show me the money : )


........& About the 16th Amendment

Even if the 16th Amendment were properly ratified, according to Article 1, Section 9 of the Constitution, it has always been unconstitutional for the U.S. Federal Government to directly tax We the People in their property, wages, salaries, or earnings. The judges of the U.S. Supreme Court rejected any claims that the 16th Amendment changed the constitutional limits on direct taxes in Brushaber v. Union Pacific R.R. Co., 240 U.S. 1, when they ruled that it "created no new power of taxation" and that it "did not change the constitutional limitations which forbid any direct taxation of individuals".

Besides that...

Alleged defects in the ratification of the Income Tax Amendment
According to the investigations of Bill Benson and others, the following defects were found in the ratification of the Income Tax Amendment by the 48 states then existing, three-fourths or 36 of which were needed to ratify it:

01 - Not ratified by state legislature, and so reported

02 - Not ratified by state legislature, but reported as ratified

03 - Missing or incomplete evidence of ratification, but reported as ratified

04 - Failure of Governor or other official to sign, although required by State Constitution

05 - Other violation of State Constitution in ratification process

06 - Other procedural irregularity making ratification doubtful

07 - Approval, but with change in wording, accepted as ratification of original version

08 - Approval, but with change in spelling, accepted as ratification of original version

09 - Approval, but with change in capitalization, accepted as ratification of original version

10 - Approval, but with change in punctuation, accepted as ratification of original version


Again if I am wrong please educate me. Ready to learn.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Welcome Bond.
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