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Toxic
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Turk wrote:
Gothmog4 wrote:
Quote:
Alot of leftists want to change the constitution to get rid of the restrain on government power, so they can govern how they please with out being held accountable..


Turk, dude: who wants to ammend the Constitution to make marriage between one man and one woman? Who wants to ammend the Constitution to make flag burning illegal? Who wants to ammend the Constitution to line up "with the word of God"? To ban abortion? Hint: not leftists.
Yes they are leftists, the neocons are leftists, anyone that wants more government intervention in the daily lives of its people are indeed leftist in nature.


No they are not. This is a classic example of Orwell's idea of Newspeak. You reduce the terms with which things can be described in a language and Thoughtcrime can no longer be committed.

There are really four simplistic quadrants on the political spectrum (some describe a fifth quadrant in the middle for centrism). There is a top-right quadrant (primarily neoconservative, movement conservatism, moderate liberals), a bottom-right quadrant (libertarians, minarchists), a bottom-left quadrant (progressivism, trotskyism, anarcho-syndicatlism), and a top-left quadrant (stalinism, some forms of communism).

The top quadrants prefer a government that is involved in many aspects of life, particularly social aspects, while the bottom quadrant, while it may support government to an extent, does not rely so heavily on government being involved specifically in a person's life.

We've covered this before and I'm tired of it.
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Turk
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah what about the amendments of the constitution that have been made through the court system, and how about the ones that release restraint on federal government and pave the way for less freedom?
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Turk
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alot of the amendments never had to be written because all of those things were rights to begin with.
They should of never had to be written
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Toxic
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Turk wrote:
Alot of the amendments never had to be written because all of those things were rights to begin with.
They should of never had to be written


Can you cite specific examples? I'm not really seeing where this is true.
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Turk
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Natural Law
English Common law
read about it
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Toxic
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
What about them applies to our discussion at hand? You do understand that neither of those are part of our system of government, right? What they say means nothing unless they are specifically added to documents that are part of our government, like the Constitution, which is exactly what these amendments you so despise did.
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chevydriver1123
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Conservative Democrat eh?

Here you go

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Democrat

Sometimes conservative dems are also called Blue Dog Democrats.
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Gothmog4
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks, CheveyDriver. That's as good a description as I've ever seen. There sure aren't many of us. My little brother is always trying to get me over to the GOP with the claim--unfortunately all too accurate--that there is more ideological space in the Republican party than in the Democratic party. My hope is that that the growing Hispanic population, a group that is genrally socially conservative, will pull the Dems. back from La-La Land.
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chevydriver1123
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gothmog4 wrote:
Thanks, CheveyDriver. That's as good a description as I've ever seen. There sure aren't many of us. My little brother is always trying to get me over to the GOP with the claim--unfortunately all too accurate--that there is more ideological space in the Republican party than in the Democratic party. My hope is that that the growing Hispanic population, a group that is genrally socially conservative, will pull the Dems. back from La-La Land.



Im a Libertarian Republican but we have been shut out by the Religious Right.
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Turk
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
chevydriver1123 wrote:
Gothmog4 wrote:
Thanks, CheveyDriver. That's as good a description as I've ever seen. There sure aren't many of us. My little brother is always trying to get me over to the GOP with the claim--unfortunately all too accurate--that there is more ideological space in the Republican party than in the Democratic party. My hope is that that the growing Hispanic population, a group that is genrally socially conservative, will pull the Dems. back from La-La Land.



Im a Libertarian Republican but we have been shut out by the Religious Right.
And the Neocon left
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Gothmog4
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Let's just hope that whoever we get for the next President is a competent person of good will who can lead our nation into the future. America is a great country; I think that sometimes we forget that in what Dr. King called "the fierce urgency of now."
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TrespassersW
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Conservative Democrat...I think? Reply with quote
Gothmog4 wrote:
Help me think this through: how does one balance compassion and empathy with free market economic policies?

By recognizing that government helps the greatest number of people by maximizing liberty, not by constraining it.

Gothmog4 wrote:
How does one ignore the reality of structural social inequities and advocate for a "Your On Your Own" economic system?

I can't speak for others, but I don't advocate ignoring the plight of those who are less fortunate; rather, I advocate for working to truly understand why individuals find themselves in need, and for making sure that efforts made in the name of helping them actually help more than they hurt. Believing that the federal government should have no role in helping those in need does not mean I believe they should not be helped. It means I know that the Constitution does not empower the federal government to do charitable work and that I believe the historical record of their efforts is evidence that they are not achieving their goals.

Gothmog4 wrote:
I am new to these forums.

Welcome!

Gothmog4 wrote:
If you are going to respond with vitriol, don't bother.

Good luck with that. (Those who delight in spewing venom won't pass you by simply because you asked nicely.) Wink

Gothmog4 wrote:
If I wanted to get shrieked at, I'd be on the Daily Kos.

The best you can hope for here is that every other response won't contain shrieking. Shocked
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Anym
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gothmog4 wrote:
My hope is that that the growing Hispanic population, a group that is genrally socially conservative, will pull the Dems. back from La-La Land.


hey I like over here. Thar be dragons.
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Gothmog4
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
hey I like over here. Thar be dragons.


No idea what you are on about, mate.
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Anym
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gothmog4 wrote:
Quote:
hey I like over here. Thar be dragons.


No idea what you are on about, mate.




Moving having to the dems move to a socially conservative center.

I'm against that.
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