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CryxicKiller
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Moon and Mars are horrible analogies. The laws of physics allow us to go there and explore those worlds, whereas the whole point in the other scenario is that the laws of physics do not permit that same interaction.
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MissLisa
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
CryxicKiller wrote:
The Moon and Mars are horrible analogies. The laws of physics allow us to go there and explore those worlds, whereas the whole point in the other scenario is that the laws of physics do not permit that same interaction.


But 100 years ago there wasn't even the possibility of technology that allows us to now go there. The point has been all about technology not so much the other laws. When we understand the laws of the other universes we can build the technology to explore more of it.

Key point I am making... as technoligy advances... so do we and what we are able to understand/explore/develop.
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exton
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
MissLisa wrote:

But 100 years ago there wasn't even the possibility of technology that allows us to now go there.


Sure there was. People were starting to build rockets at that time. The idea of going to the moon with feasible technology is older than 100 years; jules verne wrote a rather famous book about it, i believe.

In fact, one could have figured out that space travel is possible ever since Isaac Newton.

Quote:
The point has been all about technology not so much the other laws. When we understand the laws of the other universes we can build the technology to explore more of it.

Key point I am making... as technoligy advances... so do we and what we are able to understand/explore/develop.


I think the problem here is too much speculation.

If we can detect the effects that other branes have on our own, then we can confirm that they are real.

If they have no effect on our own, then they may as well not exist.

Actualling going to another one isn't relevent to that question.
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CryxicKiller
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lisa, going to the Moon from Earth is physically possible. That's the point. It's physically impossible to do what you suggest. There's no "now and the future" here. We can only do what the laws of physics allow us to do.

Exton, I agree that in the future we may be able to detect some effects that other universes have on our own, but it will still be impossible to measure specific properties in those Universes, properties like the strength of electromagnetism or even what fundamental particles that universe is composed of. We'll never be able to record stuff like that. Sad but true.
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exton
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
CryxicKiller wrote:
it will still be impossible to measure specific properties in those Universes, properties like the strength of electromagnetism or even what fundamental particles that universe is composed of. We'll never be able to record stuff like that. Sad but true.


I'm not about to go that far.

Especially since the concepts you're using to draw that conclusion are still unfounded.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Depends, if we can send energy, surely we can send binary code? And if we can do that, perhaps we can communicate with beings in these other universes and ask them what the strength of electromagnetism in their world is.
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CryxicKiller
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
To both Lester and exton: the "concept" of information processing is fairly well developed and functions within the laws of physics. Change those laws and you'll get a different type of information processing. That's why the bit about binary code won't work.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
How could the physics of the place mess up a simple on/off message?
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CryxicKiller
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The very manner in which you could say something is "on" or "off" depends on the laws of physics in this universe. For example, a satellite lets us know that it is working properly by sending an electric signal. That electric signal then is analyzed by our detectors, which decode it into sensible information. However, if we sent something like a satellite to a universe with differing physical laws, it would more than likely get destroyed somehow. A million things could happen, among them....electrostatic repulsion could be so strong that it pulverizes the object (used to and constructed based on the repulsion found in this universe), the effects of gravitation could be so severe that the satellite, and its electrical signals (nothing more than electromagnetic radiation), would get sucked towards a singularity of some sort, or maybe our good old friend the proton decays insanely fast in this other universe, in which case the satellite is a dead stick. In every scenario, it would be either the satellite getting damaged or the information processing being precluded somehow.
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Oolon Colluphid
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
MissLisa wrote:
Lester wrote:
MissLisa- While it's true that darkness and cold are merely names for the absence of light and the absence of heat, that does not mean that they do not exist, it just means they are a measure of the absence of the heat and light.


Thank you for your reply Lester. I personally found the story wonderful, regardless if it actually "happened" or it was a short story someone wrote... and I want to post it on my Spiritual Awareness forum... but wanted to make sure the first two facts were valid.


Great, now I'm helping to spread false illogical stories for others to blindly follow. CRAP! Rolling Eyes
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exton
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
CryxicKiller wrote:
To both Lester and exton: the "concept" of information processing is fairly well developed and functions within the laws of physics. Change those laws and you'll get a different type of information processing. That's why the bit about binary code won't work.


Our choice of binary code is actually somewhat arbitrary. We could use any number base for information processing, but binary has the best signal to noise ratio, so we use that.

As long as you have two different states available to you, binary will work.

I agree, though, that electronics from our universe may not work in another one. Not because the mathematical elements of digital electronics would change, but because the physics of electrical technology might change. It's the way that electrical current works that would change, not the validity of boolean algebra.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thats kind of what I meant, just sending two different pulses of energy through.
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exton
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Energy may not work the same way in another universe as it does in our own.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
But surely even if energy was morphed into matter or some other crazy thing, the two different energy parts would be transformed into two other types of matter that was different?
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exton
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
But surely even if energy was morphed into matter or some other crazy thing, the two different energy parts would be transformed into two other types of matter that was different?


Exactly what happenes depends on the physics of how this stuff works.

I think it's safe to say, though, that there's no convenient energy-conversion mechanism for would-be interuniversal travelers.
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