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Atheism vs Religion (Just read this, ok)

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Gant
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:46 pm    Post subject: Atheism vs Religion (Just read this, ok) Reply with quote
These two things have been faught about for ages now.
Both sides can sometimes be at eachothers throats, with Atheism believing in Science and Religious people in faith.

Time to offend a lot of people (My favourite thing to do it seems)


The truth is...your all idiots. Thats right. What does it matter whether god is real or not? It doesn't matter if He(or She I might add. Or even It. Who says god has to be human eh?) is real or not because your fighting amonst each other is real.

Think of it this way:

-If you believe in god, do you think He/She/It would want you fighting amonst other humans?

-If you DON'T believe in god, you should still treat other people with respect, right?




Now I must say something. Your all wondering what I am right? Am I Atheist or Religious? Or even undecided?

Well, I'll be honest. I don't believe in god. And if he DOES exist, I sure don't like him. He seems kinda like a bully to me, with all his rules. Even if he did create me, does that mean I should just do whatever he says? That would be like a parent telling a child who has become an adult to do what they say. And, if he IS all powerful, why would he care if we worship him or not?

Oh, and if your incredibly religous and think I am going to hell, well I say "BRING IT ON!"

I wouldn't want to stay in the same universe as some guy who wants me to do what he says without question!

And the idea of "eternal suffering" is flawed. That fact is, humans are incredibly adaptable, even to pain. If we where in serious pain for long enough, we could just ignore it after a while.

And don't you think that if you were the devil you would have better things to do then to torture humans for all eternity? I would get bored after the first 1000 years or so.

Anyway, I probably made a lot of enemies right now.

Even if you hate me, I think your the best. We all live on this planet after all.

See ya I guess.
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Irony man
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:27 am    Post subject: doubt after 13 yrs of Catholic School Reply with quote
(First post not sure if in right area lol not proofreading writing XD)

Gant the reason why is because religious people want to save souls. Atheists want religious people to stop wasting their time and spend it to help mankind. Also religion is used as justification for a lot of problems and it complicates several things like politics.


Wow, im still in a catholic school...all my life pretty much.

Anyway, I remember in religion class(can't remember which grade) and realized God is the biggest freaking contradiction that ever lived.

Hmmmmm my goal in life is to go to heaven right religious guys? therefore doing good deeds, going to church on Sundays(wont get specific on the holy days of obligation),participating in sacraments, etc. So after doing these, heaven here I come

Here is a scenario (a classic one)
Im on a date with a girl and i see a hobo lying on a street wall and decide to give him a 20 to impress my date. Is this a good deed or not? I mean I just helped the poor but the intention was to impress my date.

If people reading this cant follow my train of thought.
(Explanation)
I did a good deed to gain not to do good therefore my act wont tally up under heaven, meaning if we do all that stuff above the scenario, does that mean it wont tally up under heaven. lol confusing eh?

Taught that so if your frustrated dont get mad at me im a product of my environment. (parents are religious referring to my common sense..if that makes sense)

hmmmmmm, God is all loving right? and will love us no matter what we do right? explain hell please, eternal damnation.

This is not my last post its 1:27 am here so im kinda tired sorry if my typing is horrendous i type a lot better than this. Night guys!!!!!!!!
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exton
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:22 pm    Post subject: Re: doubt after 13 yrs of Catholic School Reply with quote
Irony man wrote:

Gant the reason why is because religious people want to save souls. Atheists want religious people to stop wasting their time and spend it to help mankind.


As an atheist, i would settle for having religious people stop trying to actively impede the progress of civilization. Whether or not they actively help it is up to them.

Quote:

Wow, im still in a catholic school...all my life pretty much.

Anyway, I remember in religion class(can't remember which grade) and realized God is the biggest freaking contradiction that ever lived.


To be fair, that's just the christian god.
Even if the christian god doesn't exist, there could be other gods.

There could be, for example, a god who delights in irony and cruelty, and that would be entirely consistent with the current state of human affairs.

When it comes down to it, i don't believe in the existence of any gods - christian or otherwise. I don't believe that they exist because the concept of the supernatural itself is fundamentally incoherent; it simply doesn't make sense.

Quote:

Hmmmmm my goal in life is to go to heaven right religious guys? therefore doing good deeds, going to church on Sundays(wont get specific on the holy days of obligation),participating in sacraments, etc. So after doing these, heaven here I come

Here is a scenario (a classic one)
Im on a date with a girl and i see a hobo lying on a street wall and decide to give him a 20 to impress my date. Is this a good deed or not? I mean I just helped the poor but the intention was to impress my date.

If people reading this cant follow my train of thought.
(Explanation)
I did a good deed to gain not to do good therefore my act wont tally up under heaven, meaning if we do all that stuff above the scenario, does that mean it wont tally up under heaven. lol confusing eh?


That's a good point. The man who does a good deed because it is good is a better person than the man who does a good deed because he thinks it will gain him favor.

Quote:

hmmmmmm, God is all loving right? and will love us no matter what we do right? explain hell please, eternal damnation.


It's pretty obvious, right? A trully loving god would never allow the existence of a place like hell, much less allow people to go there.
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Vinces
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My advice is don't go your whole life without seriously considering your afterlife. It seems like you have spent at least some time pondering it. I hope these aren't your final conclusions because they are based on flawed logic.

Being raised a christian its hard for me to put myself in your shoes. If I try my first question is why is there any existence at all? It seems to me like it would make more sense that there would be absolutely nothing. Because if there is something you have to answer how did it get there?

I have to resort to some sort of divine creation because all that I know tells me something cannot just come from nothing. If there was a big bang what caused it to come into existance? I Have yet to hear an acceptable answer to that one?

So then since I have concluded that there is some sort of supernatural event that created what we know as existance my next question is what is the significance of that? Was there a purpose?

I personally am going to believe that if there is some supernatural being with the divine powers of creation that there is also probably some divine purpose to it all. I don't know if there is one being or more or if this being is good or evil. I will assume there is at least one good being because if there are evil ones I will naturally want to avoid them.

So anyways I have established there must be a purpose behind creation, but I don't know what that purpose is. I summise that I am meant to try to discover it because I am going on the assumption that there is at least one good supernatural being responsible for creation.

From there I don't know exactly what I would do but I think I would explore what other beliefs are out there and see how they mesh with what I have come up with so far. I would probably try to communicate with this supernatural creator, based on the hunch that a being with the powers of creation might also be omnipotent. I would explain to this being what I have determined so far and ask for some help from him in my endeavors. Then I would think how will I know if this is working so I would ask for something specific. Not spoken out loud just in my head that only an omnipotent being could perceive lest I be tricked. Then I would wait and see what happens.

Now as a christian I am tought to live by faith and not to ask for signs. I do believe God would recognize a sincere request for truth from an unbeliever wanting to make a a connection. I would pose a warning though, that in my story above I had could not determine that there were no evil supernatural beings. I would be cautious when doing my explorations. After all you do not have to be religious to recognize there is evil in the world.
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Toxic
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
I have to resort to some sort of divine creation because all that I know tells me something cannot just come from nothing.


This is possibly the biggest flaw in your entire argument. Something cannot just come from nothing, so you believe in the divine. This logically leads to the question: where did the divine come from? Which leads to the question: where did the designers of the divine come from? And so on and so forth. You don't believe the big bang is possible because you don't believe something could come from nothing, and yet you believe the divine—who are thusfar unexplained/created out of nothing—created something out of nothing. My only question is: why?

Quote:
So then since I have concluded that there is some sort of supernatural event that created what we know as existance my next question is what is the significance of that?

I personally am going to believe that if there is some supernatural being with the divine powers of creation that there is also probably some divine purpose to it all. I don't know if there is one being or more or if this being is good or evil. I will assume there is at least one good being because if there are evil ones I will naturally want to avoid them.

So anyways I have established there must be a purpose behind creation, but I don't know what that purpose is. I summise that I am meant to try to discover it because I am going on the assumption that there is at least one good supernatural being responsible for creation.

From there I don't know exactly what I would do but I think I would explore what other beliefs are out there and see how they mesh with what I have come up with so far. I would probably try to communicate with this supernatural creator, based on the hunch that a being with the powers of creation might also be omnipotent. I would explain to this being what I have determined so far and ask for some help from him in my endeavors. Then I would think how will I know if this is working so I would ask for something specific. Not spoken out loud just in my head that only an omnipotent being could perceive lest I be tricked. Then I would wait and see what happens.

Now as a christian I am tought to live by faith and not to ask for signs. I do believe God would recognize a sincere request for truth from an unbeliever wanting to make a a connection. I would pose a warning though, that in my story above I had could not determine that there were no evil supernatural beings. I would be cautious when doing my explorations. After all you do not have to be religious to recognize there is evil in the world.


To sum up: I believe that everything was created based on no evidence or logic whatsoever but because it gives me an easy answer to a question I haven't put any thought into, and I then assume that because everything was created that it must have some sort of purpose, but I can't even begin to fathom what that purpose might be except that it must be good because the supernatural creator must have been good, and at this point there's a lot of "I don't know" going around but it certainly must have been the divine and that's why I'm a Christian who believes in god. Also, be careful due to sin and evil supernatural beings.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:46 pm    Post subject: I did say it was hard for me to put myself in his shoes. Reply with quote
But I tried.

Your missing my point. I am saying that my consciousness would decide that because there is no scientific or logical evidence showing what caused matter to pop into existance the only conclusion left (to me)must come from a supernatural source. I understand that it is harder for some people than for others to make that leap. I know some people say to themselves, Okay I don't know how matter popped into existence, but I have never encountered anything "supernatural" so until I do it isn't real. Which is doing what? Assuming that a thing is not real until it has been encountered and documented with physical evidence that the 5 human senses can understand. To you maybe makes sense, to me is arrogant.

As far as "The creator has to be good, I did confess that I would believe that because if it wasn't true I was in trouble anyways. So..if I was wrong about that what have I really lost?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:46 pm    Post subject: I did say it was hard for me to put myself in his shoes. Reply with quote
But I tried.

Your missing my point. I am saying that my consciousness would decide that because there is no scientific or logical evidence showing what caused matter to pop into existance the only conclusion left (to me)must come from a supernatural source. I understand that it is harder for some people than for others to make that leap. I know some people say to themselves, Okay I don't know how matter popped into existence, but I have never encountered anything "supernatural" so until I do it isn't real. Which is doing what? Assuming that a thing is not real until it has been encountered and documented with physical evidence that the 5 human senses can understand. To you maybe makes sense, to me is arrogant.

As far as "The creator has to be good, I did confess that I would believe that because if it wasn't true I was in trouble anyways. So..if I was wrong about that what have I really lost?
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Toxic
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: I did say it was hard for me to put myself in his shoes. Reply with quote
Anonymous wrote:
Your missing my point. I am saying that my consciousness would decide that because there is no scientific or logical evidence showing what caused matter to pop into existance the only conclusion left (to me)must come from a supernatural source. I understand that it is harder for some people than for others to make that leap.


It has nothing to do with making a leap and everything to do with being mentally weak. The argument you're making isn't that other theories have less evidence than god, it's just that we should give up and believe because we might as well. That's pathetic.

Quote:
I know some people say to themselves, Okay I don't know how matter popped into existence, but I have never encountered anything "supernatural" so until I do it isn't real. Which is doing what? Assuming that a thing is not real until it has been encountered and documented with physical evidence that the 5 human senses can understand. To you maybe makes sense, to me is arrogant.


It's arrogant to want to work towards finding the true origin of life instead of copping out and picking a solution based on nothing at all?
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