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Oolon Colluphid
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
joeyjock wrote:
Okay...
sorry to burst your Silent Night Holy Night snow globe bubble but Christmas was basically a PR campaign set back in the early days of christendom
...back in the days when St Paul...yes the apostle of old ...was laying down the firmament of what we are still struggling with hundreds of years later
..made some declarations
first Christ was said to be born on Dec 25
this was untrue
most scholars say that the true man who was Jesus Christ was born sometime in April
why the discrepancy???
Because the Romans..who the early christians wanted to convert were used to having pagan celebrations during that time
The Christmas tree was an old Germanic pagan symbol
And Santa Claus was taken from the tale of Odin...who would come to your house dressed as an old man - according to legend - and if you were hospitable to him he would leave you presents in the morning


It's amazing isn't it? Christians of today think that the whole season and all of the icons associated with it are specifically Christian in nature and that they've always been that way.

They're now working on hi-jacking our country.

BTW, another tid bit on the "Christmas tree"..

It was not even accepted in this country as a tradition until the mid 19th century. The "lord" warns in the bible to "not learn the way of the heathen".

Jeremiah 10:2-4: "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."

So the tree is more a symbol of the winter solstice than it is a xtian tradition...

RECLAIM THE TREE! WIN THE WAR ON CHRISTMAS! Twisted Evil
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PeaceLoveandRockNRoll
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oolon, that's great. That means Jeremiah says having a Christmas tree is sacreligious. Razz
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Johnguitars
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:21 pm    Post subject: Christmas Reply with quote
A thought on Christmas.

So there you are in charge of the orphanage and, being a kindly soul you make sure that all the little uns get a card and a pressy on their birthdays. But what about that toddler who arrived with no paper work? He's been here nearly a year, when is his birthday?

Some very wicked, mean spirited people are saying he has no right to a card and a pressy.

But the kindly soul who runs the orphanage will ignore them, pick a date out of thin air to be the kid's birthday and .....have a party!
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CryxicKiller
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:12 am    Post subject: Re: Christmas Reply with quote
Johnguitars wrote:
A thought on Christmas.

So there you are in charge of the orphanage and, being a kindly soul you make sure that all the little uns get a card and a pressy on their birthdays. But what about that toddler who arrived with no paper work? He's been here nearly a year, when is his birthday?

Some very wicked, mean spirited people are saying he has no right to a card and a pressy.

But the kindly soul who runs the orphanage will ignore them, pick a date out of thin air to be the kid's birthday and .....have a party!


Hmmm...what is this about? Are you recounting a personal story or something? If so, do tell more.
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exton
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: Christmas Reply with quote
Johnguitars wrote:
A thought on Christmas.
So there you are in charge of the orphanage and, being a kindly soul you make sure that all the little uns get a card and a pressy on their birthdays. But what about that toddler who arrived with no paper work? He's been here nearly a year, when is his birthday?

Some very wicked, mean spirited people are saying he has no right to a card and a pressy.

But the kindly soul who runs the orphanage will ignore them, pick a date out of thin air to be the kid's birthday and .....have a party!


That, however, is not the case with jesus.
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Johnguitars
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: Christmas Reply with quote
exton wrote:
Johnguitars wrote:
A thought on Christmas.
So there you are in charge of the orphanage and, being a kindly soul you make sure that all the little uns get a card and a pressy on their birthdays. But what about that toddler who arrived with no paper work? He's been here nearly a year, when is his birthday?

Some very wicked, mean spirited people are saying he has no right to a card and a pressy.

But the kindly soul who runs the orphanage will ignore them, pick a date out of thin air to be the kid's birthday and .....have a party!


That, however, is not the case with jesus.


So because we do not know the exact date on which he was born, you would say we have no right to choose a date to celebrate his birth?
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exton
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: Christmas Reply with quote
Johnguitars wrote:

So because we do not know the exact date on which he was born, you would say we have no right to choose a date to celebrate his birth?


Nope. I make no claims about what you can or can not do.

I only claim that you don't need to pick a date at random on the calender, because we have some idea as to when the actual date is.

Moreover, it is not celebrated on the 25th because that's a random date that everyone agreed would work well. The 25th is quite deliberate; it's meant to coincide with a pagan holiday.
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PeaceLoveandRockNRoll
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: Christmas Reply with quote
Johnguitars wrote:
exton wrote:
Johnguitars wrote:
A thought on Christmas.
So there you are in charge of the orphanage and, being a kindly soul you make sure that all the little uns get a card and a pressy on their birthdays. But what about that toddler who arrived with no paper work? He's been here nearly a year, when is his birthday?

Some very wicked, mean spirited people are saying he has no right to a card and a pressy.

But the kindly soul who runs the orphanage will ignore them, pick a date out of thin air to be the kid's birthday and .....have a party!


That, however, is not the case with jesus.


So because we do not know the exact date on which he was born, you would say we have no right to choose a date to celebrate his birth?


So... you're saying that december 25th is a random date, not one meant to all on solstice?

Everyone has a right to celebrate what they want to, and the birth of Jesus is certainly an admirable reason for joy. But especially given that the date on which it is celebrated was moved to be attractive to pagans and more analogous to their celebrations, the point of this thread is that Christianity has no right to monopolize the time of year as a Christian time of celebration, if anything, it has only an incredibly bastardized reason to celebrate then. By all means, celebrate the birth of Jesus of Nazareth, a great man, but don't claim that doing so at the solstice is unrelated to previous, nonchristian traditions. Since you seem to have no desire to do that, I don't see any problem with your views in general.
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exton
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:38 am    Post subject: Re: Christmas Reply with quote
PeaceLoveandRockNRoll wrote:

solstice?


Isn't that the 21st, though?
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PeaceLoveandRockNRoll
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Give 'em a break, this was 1600 years ago and Europeans didn't have good calendars. I believe Jesus was also in fact born in 6 BC. But remember that Hannukah is very clearly a solstice celebration of the sun, and it doesn't often fall directly on that day either.
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exton
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
PeaceLoveandRockNRoll wrote:
Hannukah is very clearly a solstice celebration of the sun


I was under the impression that it was celebrating the fact that the oil lasted a little longer than they thought it would.
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PeaceLoveandRockNRoll
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
PeaceLoveandRockNRoll wrote:
Hannukah is very clearly a solstice celebration of the sun


I was under the impression that it was celebrating the fact that the oil lasted a little longer than they thought it would.

Yes, but like Christmas, it's conveniently placed right around the shortest days of the year as a celebration of light everlasting through darkness.
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