Register :: Log in :: Profile :: Mail   
150 Leading Intellects: Internet will end religion.

Home // Evolution Versus Creationism



Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Author Message
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just admit it, to follow everything the bible tells you to do is not only impossible, but wrong in the light of morality of the current day.
Back to top
christianzack
Newbie


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="joeyjock"]When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

So just make sure when you beat a slave...let him survive a day or two[/quote]

once again you misqoute the bible. this it what is says about beating a slave.

20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

nowhere does it say that a man is obligated to beat or punish a slave it only says if you beat one and they die than you to can be put to death. Yes it seams harsh but number 1 keep in mind that people volunteered for slavery and therefore agreed to these terms as we see in this verse.

16 "Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death.

number 2 there was regulation on the punishment of a slave as we see here

26 "If a man hits a manservant or maidservant in the eye and destroys it, he must let the servant go free to compensate for the eye. 27 And if he knocks out the tooth of a manservant or maidservant, he must let the servant go free to compensate for the tooth.

yes still seems pretty brutal but lets use logic here you all seem to be familiar with that. What if god said though shall not punish his slaves. Then what would stop slaves from doing what ever the heck they wanted ?? do you have an alternative that is better for keeping them in line? oh oh ive got it you could just not feed them till they started working again so they would be so weak they couldnt do any work and just keep starving them till they died of it. Does that sound better? or maybe you could just let them go and kick them off your land and either leave them to starve to death and be homeless or let them turn into thieves to get by. Yup that sounds good to me!

Actions have consequences just as a parent would punish a child masters punished their slaves same concept. They didn't just beat slaves for no reason or lash them to motivate them. When you had a slave they became part of your family and sometimes even ate with you and lived in your house. Most of them were treated very well and even loved their masters very much. The bible tells many stories that imply such relationships.

the defintion of a slave is as follows:
1. a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant.

I am not an advocate of slavery simply because its not necessary today because there are enough jobs and enough currency so that everyone can have there own job and place to stay, but back then it worked out for the best when you had nowhere else to go and didn't want to become a criminal. I'm not saying there weren't slaves that were mistreated i'm saying that the law did not condone mistreatment and that just because a master was with in his rights to beat a slave within inches of his life that did not make it right. For example by todays law if a man hits you you are well within in your right to beat him to death and claim self-defense and walk away scott free, but does that make it ok???? there are no laws against lying but does that mean its alright???

The bible does not promote slavery it merely put regulations on it to keep it from becoming what we witnessed in the american south. Slavery is not necessary today because of the society that god has allowed us to make.
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh my poseidon, did you really just ask what would keep the slaves from doing whatever the heck they want!?!?

THE WHOLE POINT IS THAT THE BIBLE SUPPORTS SLAVERY, AND SLAVERY IS WRONG, DO THE CAPITAL LETTERS MAKE THIS ANY CLEARER??
Back to top
exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah, to emphasize what lester is saying:

Slavery is wrong.
It. Is. Wrong.

Always.
There is never a time when slavery is right. It is not okay.

It doesn't matter if it's economically expedient - it's still wrong.

And it is never necessary.

And that's the point we're trying to make here: slavery is wrong, but the bible supports slavery.
Back to top
joeyjock
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 2108
Location: Fort Lauderdale

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Zack....
..you're backpedalling to support something the bible says that you know is wrong
you know it I know it and most of the free world knows it...slavery is just as wrong now as it was back then
saying that there were hard times back in the day...and some people may have benefitted is ludicris
by that logic the people in bangledesh should be lining up to become slaves
and what about the poor people in Darfur
you wanna suggest they should bond themselves into slavery?
The bible is was and for ever shall be wrong on at least that count when it comes to human bondage
Back to top
christianzack
Newbie


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="exton"]Yeah, to emphasize what lester is saying:

Slavery is wrong.
It. Is. Wrong.

Always.
There is never a time when slavery is right. It is not okay.

It doesn't matter if it's economically expedient - it's still wrong.

And it is never necessary.

And that's the point we're trying to make here: slavery is wrong, but the bible supports slavery.[/quote]

well the problem is that you think of slavery in terms of what it has been made when it simply means to own a human being and there is nothing wrong with that when that person agrees to it.

Slavery has never been the problem tyranny and oppression is the problem.

technically pets are slaves and according to evolution were just animals too so whats the difference?

Technically a wife is a slave. Slavery is practiced everyday in the united states. Ever seen a homeless guy with a sign that says will work for food???? yup that is too. Now lets say we changed the word slave to servant and you had a servant that lived with you and did chores for you of his own will and you gave him a room to stay in and food to eat. Now you tell me if there is anything wrong with that? I have known several people that did this. If you were illiterate, impoverished, starving, and homeless would you give up your freedom so you could eat and have a place to stay???? I would in a heart beat!!

The bible does not say you should have slaves. It merely says that if you do here are the regulations and of coarse this system can be abused as any other system can. Like i said TYRANNY and OPPRESSION are the problem and if everyone loved each other as they love themselves then there would not be a problem with being in charge of someones life.

If the bible is soooo for slavery then the Hebrews would have never left Egypt.

Just tell me why owning a human being is wrong when number 1 they agree to it and number 2 if that person cares about you??

the only thing that is wrong is the possibility or TYRANNY and OPPRESSION. Which is commonly associated with slavery but when these elements are taken out and especially when the bible teaches against there is not a single problem.
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
1. The difference between pets and humans?? Hmm, I don't know, how about self-awareness and thought?

2. You have a really messed up view of marriage.

3. A homeless guy with a sign asking to work for food is not slavery, you don't own the homeless guy, if he thinks the work is too hard he can just walk off and not be fed, it's actually almost a contract type situation.

4. You say that the servant is doing this of his own free will and yet he traded his freedom for food and a place to stay...

5. Did you not see the quote joey gave you??
"However, *you may* purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)"
The bible says you can do it buddy, sorry.

6. So your a facist for a benevolent dictatorship?? The problem with slavery is that everyone *doesn't* love each other, and in fact the bible says that only the people of israel need to be treated like that if you read that above quote.

7. The hebrews are gods people in the story, underdogs always draw support, it's kind of like how the arians were promoted as the superior race, and because of their superiority they could do what they wanted to everyone else.

8. Lack of freedom?? Oh and also I don't think anyone here believes for a second the majority of slaves chose that lifestyle.
Back to top
exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
christianzack wrote:

well the problem is that you think of slavery in terms of what it has been made when it simply means to own a human being and there is nothing wrong with that when that person agrees to it.


Slavery is involuntary, by definition.

If it weren't, then a slave could quit whenever he wants.

Slaves can't do that.

You've as much as admitted it yourself - you claim slaves need motivation to work! When someone volunteers for something, he does it. He doesn't get lashings for laziness. And, in this day and age, if he doesn't do it, he's fired.

That's not the case with slaves.

Quote:

Slavery has never been the problem tyranny and oppression is the problem.

technically pets are slaves and according to evolution were just animals too so whats the difference?


The difference is that animals are incapable of thought as we know it. Taking an animal for a pet is like owning a toaster oven.

Quote:

Technically a wife is a slave.


I pity the woman who marries you.

For *most* people, marriage is not slavery.

Why?

Because either person can quit.

Quote:

Slavery is practiced everyday in the united states. Ever seen a homeless guy with a sign that says will work for food???? yup that is too.


No, it isn't. Why? Because the homeless guy doesn't have to do what anyone says. He can work for food, if he wants. But he can also NOT work for food, if he wants. He cannot be bought and sold. He has all the rights of any other person.

Quote:

Now lets say we changed the word slave to servant and you had a servant that lived with you and did chores for you of his own will and you gave him a room to stay in and food to eat. Now you tell me if there is anything wrong with that?


Nope.

But what is the difference between that and slavery?

It's voluntary! A servant can quit any time he wants. He cannot be bought and sold. He has all the rights of any other person.

Quote:

I have known several people that did this. If you were illiterate, impoverished, starving, and homeless would you give up your freedom so you could eat and have a place to stay???? I would in a heart beat!!


I wouldn't.
Of course, i might tell people i'll become their slave. But i'd be lying if i said so. I wouldn't actually keep my end of the deal.

Quote:

The bible does not say you should have slaves. It merely says that if you do here are the regulations and of coarse this system can be abused as any other system can.


That's the problem. The MORAL position on the subject is that you should not own slaves. Ever. There is no "what if" about it - you can't own slaves. Period. That's it.

Quote:

Like i said TYRANNY and OPPRESSION are the problem and if everyone loved each other as they love themselves then there would not be a problem with being in charge of someones life.

If the bible is soooo for slavery then the Hebrews would have never left Egypt.


The bible is partial to the jews? Shocking!

Oh, wait a minute...

Quote:

Just tell me why owning a human being is wrong when number 1 they agree to it and number 2 if that person cares about you??


You cannot "own" a person AND have them "agree" to it.
Why? Because that's implying that this person has some sort of freedom of choice.
But a slave has no choice. A slave cannot quit.

An agreement can be broken. An employee can say, "hey - i quit!"
A slave can't.
Back to top
christianzack
Newbie


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="Lester"]1. The difference between pets and humans?? Hmm, I don't know, how about self-awareness and thought?

2. You have a really messed up view of marriage.

3. A homeless guy with a sign asking to work for food is not slavery, you don't own the homeless guy, if he thinks the work is too hard he can just walk off and not be fed, it's actually almost a contract type situation.

4. You say that the servant is doing this of his own free will and yet he traded his freedom for food and a place to stay...

5. Did you not see the quote joey gave you??
"However, *you may* purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)"
The bible says you can do it buddy, sorry.

6. So your a facist for a benevolent dictatorship?? The problem with slavery is that everyone *doesn't* love each other, and in fact the bible says that only the people of israel need to be treated like that if you read that above quote.

7. The hebrews are gods people in the story, underdogs always draw support, it's kind of like how the arians were promoted as the superior race, and because of their superiority they could do what they wanted to everyone else.

8. Lack of freedom?? Oh and also I don't think anyone here believes for a second the majority of slaves chose that lifestyle.[/quote]



1. Pets think and can use logic to a degree. Who knows if they are self aware but i would think so seeing as how most of them seem to know when they are dying.

2. no i dont have a messed up view of marriage. I think everyone else does seeing as how lasting marriages are now among the minority. In the bible it says that a man is to rule over his wife but is also to love her as he loves himself so therefore should always be looking out for her best interest. There is nothing wrong with that and there is nothing wrong with ruling over another person if you are looking out for there best interest and they have given you consent to do so. Isn't that what the government does? once again yes it can be abused.

3. thats true about the homeless guy i was trying to compare work without wages and the barter system but you do have a point.

4. I'm saying the servant traded his freedom of his own will and gave consent. People have to right to do whatever they want even if that means handing over their rights to someone else do you agree?

5. yes it says you can purchase slaves because they are property i did not dispute this but people agreed to these terms when they became slaves originally and knew this was the law and yes the children didnt have much say in the matter but that is mostly their parents fault because they agreed to the terms.

6. ummm no it says that the people of isreal are not to become slaves but only paid servants they were refering to not making slaves of your own countrymen. That may seem racist or unfair to you but remember god made a covanent with the people of israel and in return for there obedience he blessed them. It wasn't who they are that counted it was what they did. The regulation on slavery applied to all slaves but hebrews were not slaves. True that not everyone loves each other in slavery and this is the only reason it becomes cruel but as you see in the bible most of them were treated very well and like i have said many times any system can be abused its probably why god put an end to it and made our society what it is today. Dictatorship is actually the best form of government when you have a large majority that is uneducated and could not make the best decision for themselves because of the lack of knowledge. It would actually work great if there was not TYRANNY and OPPRESSION used so often along with it and the dictator actually vared about the people. Now when your dealing with a country where the large majority is some what educated and can make logical good decisions then yes democracy is definetly the way to go as you see in america but remember that Hitler used fascism to make an impoverished country into a major world power in a matter of years that rivaled the U.S. and had there not been so much TYRANNY and OPPRESSION involved it would not have been a bad deal at all. Minus all the cruel things that happened it was a very effective form of government. No I am not pro Fascism though it only works in theory and you could say the same of slavery which I am not a fan of either but there were symbiotic relationships between masters and slaves.

7. Never did god say the hebrews were superior and could do what they wanted. They only did what god told them to do.

8. whether or not they believe they chose it the law said you could not force a man into slavery and I keep telling you they were not treated that bad. You will be hard pressed to find many stories in the bible that speak of mistreatment of slaves/servants. God fearing people of that time were commisioned by god to be fair and just to all because god was the same with them.
Back to top
christianzack
Newbie


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="exton"][quote="christianzack"]
well the problem is that you think of slavery in terms of what it has been made when it simply means to own a human being and there is nothing wrong with that when that person agrees to it.[/quote]

Slavery is involuntary, by definition.

[b]no its not here is the definition right here.
–noun
1. a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant.[/b]

If it weren't, then a slave could quit whenever he wants.

[b]A person waves that right when they agree to become a slave and understands this.[/b]

Slaves can't do that.

You've as much as admitted it yourself - you claim slaves need motivation to work! When someone volunteers for something, he does it. He doesn't get lashings for laziness. And, in this day and age, if he doesn't do it, he's fired.

That's not the case with slaves.

[b]Never said it was the case. In this day and age if you didnt do what you agreed to do of coarse you would get punished how else do you think order was kept[/b]
[quote]
Slavery has never been the problem tyranny and oppression is the problem.

technically pets are slaves and according to evolution were just animals too so whats the difference?[/quote]

The difference is that animals are incapable of thought as we know it. Taking an animal for a pet is like owning a toaster oven.

[b]no its not. Animals are capable of logic and thought. They also can choose and have feeling. Toasters don't sorry but maybe one day they will too. [/b]

[quote]
Technically a wife is a slave.[/quote]

I pity the woman who marries you.

[b]in a biblical marriage a man is to RULE over his wife but love her as he loves himself, therefore he should always look out for her best interest. If all marriages were like this then the divorce rate would not be 60% like it is now.[/b]

For *most* people, marriage is not slavery.

Why?

Because either person can quit.

[b]actually legally you cannot get devorced unless the other person signs the paper and approves it.[/b]

[quote]
Slavery is practiced everyday in the united states. Ever seen a homeless guy with a sign that says will work for food???? yup that is too.[/quote]

No, it isn't. Why? Because the homeless guy doesn't have to do what anyone says. He can work for food, if he wants. But he can also NOT work for food, if he wants. He cannot be bought and sold. He has all the rights of any other person.

[b]True, I am merely saying that slavery is more of a barter system where your payment for work and shelter and food. There is a similarity between the two scenarios is what im saying.[/b]

[quote]
Now lets say we changed the word slave to servant and you had a servant that lived with you and did chores for you of his own will and you gave him a room to stay in and food to eat. Now you tell me if there is anything wrong with that?[/quote]

Nope.

But what is the difference between that and slavery?

It's voluntary! A servant can quit any time he wants. He cannot be bought and sold. He has all the rights of any other person.

yes they can be bought and sold at different prices or wages but your right a servant can turn down or accept an offer just as a person could choose to become property to someone else in exchange for shelter and food they have the right to do so.

[quote]
I have known several people that did this. If you were illiterate, impoverished, starving, and homeless would you give up your freedom so you could eat and have a place to stay???? I would in a heart beat!![/quote]

I wouldn't.
Of course, i might tell people i'll become their slave. But i'd be lying if i said so. I wouldn't actually keep my end of the deal.

[b]back then peoples word was there bond and if someone offered you to become there slave because your were not that well off and said they would take good care of you they generally trusted them and this system works so long as each person holds up their end of the bargain and if they don't their lies the problem.[/b]

[quote]
The bible does not say you should have slaves. It merely says that if you do here are the regulations and of coarse this system can be abused as any other system can.[/quote]

That's the problem. The MORAL position on the subject is that you should not own slaves. Ever. There is no "what if" about it - you can't own slaves. Period. That's it.

[b]You cant own slaves because no one in there right mind would agree to it today but you must remember that the people thousands of years ago were much much much less intelligent and were probably better off giving there rights to someone else because they could not have been a productive member of society without sonone to tell them what to do or to be a part of a business that supported the local economy.[/b]

[quote]
Like i said TYRANNY and OPPRESSION are the problem and if everyone loved each other as they love themselves then there would not be a problem with being in charge of someones life.

If the bible is soooo for slavery then the Hebrews would have never left Egypt.[/quote]

The bible is partial to the jews? Shocking!

Oh, wait a minute...

[quote]
Just tell me why owning a human being is wrong when number 1 they agree to it and number 2 if that person cares about you??[/quote]

You cannot "own" a person AND have them "agree" to it.
Why? Because that's implying that this person has some sort of freedom of choice.
But a slave has no choice. A slave cannot quit.

[b]You would have a freedom of choice up until you decided to become a slave and after that you would be WILLINGLY waiving that right and they understood this completely. It was the law. Just we understand that when we commit certain crimes we will go to jail for them and our right to freedom will be taken away yet people still do this.[/b]

An agreement can be broken. An employee can say, "hey - i quit!"
A slave can't.[/quote][b]

[b]I never said they could and you still even to this day have the right to give up your rights of coarse no one would do that unless say they supported the homeland security act lol.[/b][/b]
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
1. Animals operate on instinct, self-awareness and intelligent life is a whole different level.

2. Yes you do! You believe that a woman should submit to her husband, and that is sexist bullshit, you just try that shit with gloria steinmen or jane fonda, see how far you get.

3. Thankyou.

4. Ever hear about these things called *inalienable* rights?? That means that you can't even give them away.

5. Mostly the parents fault?? They gave up all their rights, they are property, therefore it is all the owners fault. This is the skewed logic of the slave owner. I can't believe your defending this. Purchasing people? It's disgusting.

6. Yes it is an efficient system, but it is efficient BECAUSE of it's tyranny and it's oppressiveness. I don't deny that hitler and such were effective, but they certainly were not *moral* and thats what we're talking about.

7. They *always* did what God told them too, and strangely enough, God only spoke through hebrews.... huh, thats weird.

8. What about the passage that said you can hit them and as long as they don't die within two days your okay?? I call that mistreatment.
Back to top
christianzack
Newbie


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="Lester"]1. Animals operate on instinct, self-awareness and intelligent life is a whole different level.

2. Yes you do! You believe that a woman should submit to her husband, and that is sexist bullshit, you just try that shit with gloria steinmen or jane fonda, see how far you get.

[b]I guess you didnt read the rest of it huh? like i said if a man loves a women as he does himself he will value her opinion and desires.[/b]

3. Thankyou.

4. Ever hear about these things called *inalienable* rights?? That means that you can't even give them away.

[b]those didn't exist back then.[/b]

5. Mostly the parents fault?? They gave up all their rights, they are property, therefore it is all the owners fault. This is the skewed logic of the slave owner. I can't believe your defending this. Purchasing people? It's disgusting.

[b]not if they agree to it and thats what they want. It a whole lot better than starving to death. You don't even understand the economics of this time period there was not even anough currency for everyone to have money to own things like land and housing and not to mention the severe lack of jobs.[/b]

6. Yes it is an efficient system, but it is efficient BECAUSE of it's tyranny and it's oppressiveness. I don't deny that hitler and such were effective, but they certainly were not *moral* and thats what we're talking about.

[b]you should look up the definition of both tyranny and oppression, in theory it could work without these factors. yes what happened was a terrible thing and im not condoning it but the word moral has no meaning here you should look up that definition too having a moral simply means a code or value you have. i could have a moral to kill everyone i see and as long as i upheld that you could say i was very moral. Morals are what you make them. Now biblical morality is what i go by. Yes hitler was not biblically moral and neither is the rest of the world for that matter. Yes you think biblical morality is sick but keep in mind that jewish law was don away with when jesus died and his teachings are very different. This is not because god changed his mind or that the laws were wrong , it was simply because man changes becomes more intelligent and so on and so forth and that is why the concept of slavery seems so brutal to you and it would be today, but you have to keep in mind that these were primitive people that did not think like us and there is not even record of slave revolts in the jewish community of this time period so they obviously weren't that unhappy about seeing as how they submitted to it.[/b]

7. They *always* did what God told them too, and strangely enough, God only spoke through hebrews.... huh, thats weird.

[b]um yah he did only speak through them because they were his people and worshipped him just like god only speaks to christians or people who become christians because if you don't want live for him and acknoledge him you obviously cant hear him.[/b]

8. What about the passage that said you can hit them and as long as they don't die within two days your okay?? I call that mistreatment.[/quote]

[b]first of all the passage says if they die as a direct result of you hitting them you too will be punished and that you wont get punished if they are able to get up and walk away after a couple of days. Not if they dont die after a couple of days it ok. It doesn't say anyone was obligated to do such a thing it merely says if you take it that far you will be punished and possibly put to death. Yes this means legally you could beat a slave within inches of his life and as long as he was ok after a few days you didn't get in trouble but just because a man was within his RIGHTS to do so did not mean it was practiced regularly or that it was ok for him to do. God gave us freewill and the RIGHT to do whatever we want but it doesn't mean we are RIGHT in killing and stealing. As I said before by todays law if another person hits you you are well within your RIGHTS to beat a man to death, Claim self-defense and walk away scott free. Do you think that makes it RIGHT? of coarse not. There are many things in the bible that are not mentioned and that there are not laws against but it doesn't make them RIGHT just because they are not there. Same goes for the constitution as a matter of fact. Everything can't always be black and white.[/b]
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
1. Who cares whether he values her opinions?? You want her to submit to him!! Seriously, you go ask Jane fonda whether she thinks thats good for women, if she says yes then I will forfeit this entire argument.

2. No, they always existed, they were just ignored back then because the bible said it was okay to do so. Even if they didn't exist, would it change the fact that it was wrong?? No, it would not.

3. Oh ok, sure, give me a reputable source that backs up that claim. Also, just because being a slave beats dying doesn't mean that it's a *good* thing.

4. No it could not! The reason Hitler ran his country so well was because all non-arians were forced to work without pay and all the money and goods that non-arians had was given to arians.

5. You don't understand, the hebrews thought they were above everyone else because they had this preconceived notion of divine right on their side, who is to say that they didn't just pretend god spoke to them to make themselves seem more important??

6. If there is a specific punishment for stepping over a certain line, that means everything before that line doesn't have that punishment, therefore you were not punished for hitting your slaves, and since God is big on punishing those who do wrong, obviously it is not wrong.
Back to top
joeyjock
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 2108
Location: Fort Lauderdale

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
whether an animal being cared for by a human is humane or not has absolutely nothing to do with slavery
a pet or a livestock animal is with it's master because it is beneficial to them
I don't think your dog would take you up on the offer if you shouted at the top of your lungs during a walk in the park... "Run Rover...run!!! You are now free!!!
Free to roam green pastures!!!"
As far as marriage....
the bible has some pretty odd ball suggestions on that part
I'm sure any wife in America at least would look at you very weirdly if you told her what the bible suggests literally
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
I'm sure any wife in America at least would look at you very weirdly is you told her what the bible suggests literally


Well, there is the BDSM crowd, but other than that..
Back to top


Post new topic   Reply to topic   Quick Reply    LVC Home // Evolution Versus Creationism All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5

 

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Add to My Yahoo! Add to Google

Politics Blogs - Blog Top Sites Politics Blogs Politics
Politics blogs Politics blogs Article Directory Political Blogs - BlogCatalog Blog Directory Top Blog Sites