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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
yea saving the planet's primary motivation is for the sustainment of humanity. i know that short of a nuclear holocaust, my life will be fine, but in the generation after mine and the generation after that, there will be problems. we are doing a pretty good job of destroying the planet. there are resources that can not be replaced for millions of years, that we are using up. we destroying things that are fundamental for life to exist. yes we can destroy those things and turn the earth into mars.

the problem with you fucking cons is that you are incapable of looking at the future and are willing let problems fester and have them dealt with by future generations. our lives are a brief moment in the big scheme of things. we must realize this and think about the next 1000 years and not just the next 20 years of our life.
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ZackH
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jusdeadphunky wrote:
yea saving the planet's primary motivation is for the sustainment of humanity. i know that short of a nuclear holocaust, my life will be fine, but in the generation after mine and the generation after that, there will be problems. we are doing a pretty good job of destroying the planet. there are resources that can not be replaced for millions of years, that we are using up. we destroying things that are fundamental for life to exist. yes we can destroy those things and turn the earth into mars.

the problem with you fucking cons is that you are incapable of looking at the future and are willing let problems fester and have them dealt with by future generations. our lives are a brief moment in the big scheme of things. we must realize this and think about the next 1000 years and not just the next 20 years of our life.


Nuclear holocaust still will not kill the planet. Do you have any idea how much more destructive that astroid was 65million years ago compared to every single nuke that is on the planet? During the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction event which is what is theorized to be the destruction of the dinosaurs, a team of experts figured that the astroid was about the size of Manhatton and produced a blast about 2,000,000 times larger then any Hydrogen bomb ever tested. If the earth can withstand that kind of destruction, i think it can handle some hair spray and exhaust fumes. The problem is that WE might not live. Which is a valid problem. But remember that we aren't ment to exist forever, when it is our time to die out we will. Whether it's through natural process or through our own demise, we will die out. Do you honestly think the human race even if it changes could possibly live for another 1000 years on Earth? I think before a 1000 years is up we'll be spread out all over the place. That's really cute that you called me a conservative. I'm far from one man, it's always nice to throw out silly labels without really knowing the person at all.
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exton
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZackH wrote:
But remember that we aren't ment to exist forever, when it is our time to die out we will. Whether it's through natural process or through our own demise, we will die out.


Meant to?

Meant to by whom?

Nature doesn't MEAN for us to do anything.

We do, however, have conscious control over our collective destiny, should we choose to engage it.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd prefer it if the only species that ever exhibited the slightest bit of kindness continued on for a long long time.

Selfish? Most probably. Relevant? Not at all.

We're killing more than ourselves you know.
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ZackH
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
ZackH wrote:
But remember that we aren't ment to exist forever, when it is our time to die out we will. Whether it's through natural process or through our own demise, we will die out.


Meant to?

Meant to by whom?

Nature doesn't MEAN for us to do anything.

We do, however, have conscious control over our collective destiny, should we choose to engage it.


Ment to as in the laws of the universe that nothing lasts forever. Eventually Earth will be dead regardless if we have anything to do with it. Eventually the star we call the Sun will be dead. After enough time even if the human race still existed in say a million years we would me so much different then we are now physically and mentally.
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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZackH wrote:
jusdeadphunky wrote:
yea saving the planet's primary motivation is for the sustainment of humanity. i know that short of a nuclear holocaust, my life will be fine, but in the generation after mine and the generation after that, there will be problems. we are doing a pretty good job of destroying the planet. there are resources that can not be replaced for millions of years, that we are using up. we destroying things that are fundamental for life to exist. yes we can destroy those things and turn the earth into mars.

the problem with you fucking cons is that you are incapable of looking at the future and are willing let problems fester and have them dealt with by future generations. our lives are a brief moment in the big scheme of things. we must realize this and think about the next 1000 years and not just the next 20 years of our life.


Nuclear holocaust still will not kill the planet. Do you have any idea how much more destructive that astroid was 65million years ago compared to every single nuke that is on the planet? During the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction event which is what is theorized to be the destruction of the dinosaurs, a team of experts figured that the astroid was about the size of Manhatton and produced a blast about 2,000,000 times larger then any Hydrogen bomb ever tested. If the earth can withstand that kind of destruction, i think it can handle some hair spray and exhaust fumes. The problem is that WE might not live. Which is a valid problem. But remember that we aren't ment to exist forever, when it is our time to die out we will. Whether it's through natural process or through our own demise, we will die out. Do you honestly think the human race even if it changes could possibly live for another 1000 years on Earth? I think before a 1000 years is up we'll be spread out all over the place. That's really cute that you called me a conservative. I'm far from one man, it's always nice to throw out silly labels without really knowing the person at all.


you are taking a con position in trying to disprove the fact that global warming is harming the earth.
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exton
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZackH wrote:

Ment to as in the laws of the universe that nothing lasts forever.


There are no such physical laws.

Quote:

Eventually Earth will be dead regardless if we have anything to do with it. Eventually the star we call the Sun will be dead. After enough time even if the human race still existed in say a million years we would me so much different then we are now physically and mentally.


Perhaps.

But i don't think that that's a valid reason to just bend over and take it. It's certainly not a valid reason to say "oh, well, we've only got a couple billion years left at best, so we should just let it end now."
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Lester
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
ZackH wrote:

Ment to as in the laws of the universe that nothing lasts forever.


There are no such physical laws.


What about Entropy?
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ZackH
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jusdeadphunky wrote:
ZackH wrote:
jusdeadphunky wrote:
yea saving the planet's primary motivation is for the sustainment of humanity. i know that short of a nuclear holocaust, my life will be fine, but in the generation after mine and the generation after that, there will be problems. we are doing a pretty good job of destroying the planet. there are resources that can not be replaced for millions of years, that we are using up. we destroying things that are fundamental for life to exist. yes we can destroy those things and turn the earth into mars.

the problem with you fucking cons is that you are incapable of looking at the future and are willing let problems fester and have them dealt with by future generations. our lives are a brief moment in the big scheme of things. we must realize this and think about the next 1000 years and not just the next 20 years of our life.


Nuclear holocaust still will not kill the planet. Do you have any idea how much more destructive that astroid was 65million years ago compared to every single nuke that is on the planet? During the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction event which is what is theorized to be the destruction of the dinosaurs, a team of experts figured that the astroid was about the size of Manhatton and produced a blast about 2,000,000 times larger then any Hydrogen bomb ever tested. If the earth can withstand that kind of destruction, i think it can handle some hair spray and exhaust fumes. The problem is that WE might not live. Which is a valid problem. But remember that we aren't ment to exist forever, when it is our time to die out we will. Whether it's through natural process or through our own demise, we will die out. Do you honestly think the human race even if it changes could possibly live for another 1000 years on Earth? I think before a 1000 years is up we'll be spread out all over the place. That's really cute that you called me a conservative. I'm far from one man, it's always nice to throw out silly labels without really knowing the person at all.


you are taking a con position in trying to disprove the fact that global warming is harming the earth.


Noooo i'm not. I am not doubting global warming. Global warming is all around us, i live near Chicago and for the whole winter its been in the 50's. Global warming is around us. What i am questioning is who is responsible. I believe it's just a time where Earth will go into a warming period for the new ice age to start. It's a balancing thing. Nature always balances itself out. Also, the sun has been acting up over the past few years, it's hotter then it has been in a while and there are more solar flares and sun spots then usual. The sun is in a period of acting up so that means the earth will be warmer. The global warming experts say that the Earth has warmed up a total of a little over 1 degree. That doesn't explain the 50 degree winter I am having in Northern Indiana. It's not just us, it's something else, something far beyond our control. Don't label me as a conservative. I'm neither liberal nor conservative, i'm my own person.
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exton
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
exton wrote:
ZackH wrote:

Ment to as in the laws of the universe that nothing lasts forever.


There are no such physical laws.


What about Entropy?


The second law?

That's just about heat spreading out.

It's got nothing to do with decay, as such.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well certainly Entropy means that all man made constructs will eventually be destroyed, but it will last forever won't it? Entropy I mean.
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exton
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Entropy is just a human idea characterizing the fact that thermal energy goes from hot to cold.

Ultimately? It means that the universe will be cold and dark, because there won't be enough energy in any one place to do much.
That's quite a different matter from destruction or decay, though.

It's also worth noting that that's only one possible path the future could take.
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Lester
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I thought Entropy was inevitable?

Also that it was the breaking down of all order, so that all matter will be evenly spaced throughout the universe.
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PeaceLoveandRockNRoll
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZackH wrote:
jusdeadphunky wrote:
yea saving the planet's primary motivation is for the sustainment of humanity. i know that short of a nuclear holocaust, my life will be fine, but in the generation after mine and the generation after that, there will be problems. we are doing a pretty good job of destroying the planet. there are resources that can not be replaced for millions of years, that we are using up. we destroying things that are fundamental for life to exist. yes we can destroy those things and turn the earth into mars.

the problem with you fucking cons is that you are incapable of looking at the future and are willing let problems fester and have them dealt with by future generations. our lives are a brief moment in the big scheme of things. we must realize this and think about the next 1000 years and not just the next 20 years of our life.


Nuclear holocaust still will not kill the planet. Do you have any idea how much more destructive that astroid was 65million years ago compared to every single nuke that is on the planet? During the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction event which is what is theorized to be the destruction of the dinosaurs, a team of experts figured that the astroid was about the size of Manhatton and produced a blast about 2,000,000 times larger then any Hydrogen bomb ever tested. If the earth can withstand that kind of destruction, i think it can handle some hair spray and exhaust fumes. The problem is that WE might not live. Which is a valid problem. But remember that we aren't ment to exist forever, when it is our time to die out we will. Whether it's through natural process or through our own demise, we will die out. Do you honestly think the human race even if it changes could possibly live for another 1000 years on Earth? I think before a 1000 years is up we'll be spread out all over the place. That's really cute that you called me a conservative. I'm far from one man, it's always nice to throw out silly labels without really knowing the person at all.


I personally haven't heard you violate the straight Republican line as far as I remember, but I'm probably forgetting something. More importantly, as to the 65 million years ago asteroid thing... it did wipe out the dominant species on the planet, just not all life. And if it was the size of 2,000 bombs... the US currently has 12,000. Russia has almost 16,000. India and Pakistan between them have almost another 1,000. Plus another 3-400 in the possession of other countries like France, Israel, and the UK. North Korea is estimated to have the material to make around 6 missiles, easily enough to start a large scale nuclear war. 2,000 going off would be a much smaller level of destruction than is theoretically possible and even likely in the event of nuclear conflict, that's what 'mutual assured destruction' is all about. Not saying it's likely, but there IS the potential to drop a large amount of shit onto this planet, enough to seriously affect it.

All that, of course, is distinct from the threat of global warming in general. The current and projected climate change is a dozen times the size of what happened before either of the last two ice ages, or for as far back as can be determined with current technology. It's not just the natural process, or if it is, it's gonna be a doozy of a natural process, and greenhouse gasses can't be helping.
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exton
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
I thought Entropy was inevitable?

Also that it was the breaking down of all order, so that all matter will be evenly spaced throughout the universe.


Well, to be precise, the second law of thermodynamics states: in a closed system, entropy always increases.

There are a number of ways of think about that, but it basically just means that emergy spreads out; over time, you have less and less useable energy.
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