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ZackH
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Isn't global warming a natural process of the planet? I actually realy enjoyed Al Gore's movie but the problem I had with it is that he seems to think that humans are aliens and doesn't take into consideration that we are a natural species on this planet and that the things we do is indeed natural. Everything we make or do is natural. An airplane isn't from Europa, it came from the Earth's natural materials. So perhaps it can be said that humans are the link for the next ice age to start, for the cleansing and balancing of Earth.
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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some Chick wrote:
I would like to add one:

Feed the bugs, don't kill them. Yes, bugs. It may sound weird but we are losing lots of bugs due to pollution and the huge number of pesticides available on the market. (I'll admit, I'll fucking scream if I see a cockaroach) But we really need bugs because birds and other small animals need to eat them. (I know, major infestations are a different story)

I wouldn't suggest feeding them in your house or anything but if you've got one inside you could at least scoop it up and put it outside instead instead of smashing it.

Also, most bugs and ants don't like the smell of burning sage or marijuana. so that should be something that you try first before spraying some harsh pesticide all over the place. Smile


on this note, has any of you heard about the lifeless forests being created?

because of the exotic bird trade, there are forests all over the world that are beginning to contain little animal life. when the birds are remved and sold to rich ass holes all over the world, the whole forest is effected
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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZackH wrote:
Isn't global warming a natural process of the planet? I actually realy enjoyed Al Gore's movie but the problem I had with it is that he seems to think that humans are aliens and doesn't take into consideration that we are a natural species on this planet and that the things we do is indeed natural. Everything we make or do is natural. An airplane isn't from Europa, it came from the Earth's natural materials. So perhaps it can be said that humans are the link for the next ice age to start, for the cleansing and balancing of Earth.


okay...yes global warming is a natural process, but i do not know how anyone can deny the fact that humans are speeding this process up at a rapid pace.

man makes all sorts of unnatural things. sure they are made from things that come from the earth, but that does not mean they are natural.

the human species is out of control. we are like a cancer to the earth. that does not mean we are aliens, it just means that something has gone horribly wrong and we are destroying the place that sustains our lives (just like cancer).
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Some Chick
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
jusdeadphunky wrote:
Some Chick wrote:
I would like to add one:

Feed the bugs, don't kill them. Yes, bugs. It may sound weird but we are losing lots of bugs due to pollution and the huge number of pesticides available on the market. (I'll admit, I'll fucking scream if I see a cockaroach) But we really need bugs because birds and other small animals need to eat them. (I know, major infestations are a different story)

I wouldn't suggest feeding them in your house or anything but if you've got one inside you could at least scoop it up and put it outside instead instead of smashing it.

Also, most bugs and ants don't like the smell of burning sage or marijuana. so that should be something that you try first before spraying some harsh pesticide all over the place. Smile


on this note, has any of you heard about the lifeless forests being created?

because of the exotic bird trade, there are forests all over the world that are beginning to contain little animal life. when the birds are remved and sold to rich ass holes all over the world, the whole forest is effected


Yes, that sucks. I hate rich assholes. Speaking of them,
I would also like to mention The Leafy Sea Dragon from the southern coast of Australia. If you've never seen one take a look; http://images.google.com/image.....ragon[url]
They have absolutely no nautural predators in the wild. The only reason they are disappearing is beacuse of humans. They're getting sold into the pet trade and the Chinese medicine trade. Bladders go for several $K. Sad
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PeaceLoveandRockNRoll
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZackH wrote:
Isn't global warming a natural process of the planet? I actually realy enjoyed Al Gore's movie but the problem I had with it is that he seems to think that humans are aliens and doesn't take into consideration that we are a natural species on this planet and that the things we do is indeed natural. Everything we make or do is natural. An airplane isn't from Europa, it came from the Earth's natural materials. So perhaps it can be said that humans are the link for the next ice age to start, for the cleansing and balancing of Earth.


Just because we're a natural agent doesn't mean we shouldn't try to keep the climate somewthing we can live in.

Oh, and Some Chick, I like that bug plan.
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ZackH
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jusdeadphunky wrote:
ZackH wrote:
Isn't global warming a natural process of the planet? I actually realy enjoyed Al Gore's movie but the problem I had with it is that he seems to think that humans are aliens and doesn't take into consideration that we are a natural species on this planet and that the things we do is indeed natural. Everything we make or do is natural. An airplane isn't from Europa, it came from the Earth's natural materials. So perhaps it can be said that humans are the link for the next ice age to start, for the cleansing and balancing of Earth.


okay...yes global warming is a natural process, but i do not know how anyone can deny the fact that humans are speeding this process up at a rapid pace.

man makes all sorts of unnatural things. sure they are made from things that come from the earth, but that does not mean they are natural.

the human species is out of control. we are like a cancer to the earth. that does not mean we are aliens, it just means that something has gone horribly wrong and we are destroying the place that sustains our lives (just like cancer).


Are we really doing it that much anymore? There is much much less CO2 emmissions in the atmosphere then there was 200 years ago when Industry first started. There are more trees in the US then there were in 1920. Gas prices are extremely high so everyone who doesn't make 100k a year are buying cheaper and better gas to the mileage cars. I think things are being done to help "save" the planet without anyone even realizing it. I saw that Al Gore in the movie was talking about how they can measure the amount of CO2 in the past be using the ice in the polar caps. I don't see how that could possibly be accurate. For one thing Antarctica wasn't cold before 10 or 20 thousand years ago which was the last major ice age. The poles switched sometime after the Great Pyramids were built which could have created a major warming or cooling period, and I believe there was a minor ice age during the Midevil times.

Al Gore even said that there isn't alot that has to be done as long as everyone makes a small effort and I think that's already happening whether we are trying or not. At least in North America and the UK. Sure the rainforest is being cut down which is a big problem but that's not anything the US or UK could do. We can't tell poor people to stop slashing the rainforest down and to stop farming it because they are doing it to survive. It's those countries resposibility to stop it and we have no say in it.
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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZackH wrote:
jusdeadphunky wrote:
ZackH wrote:
Isn't global warming a natural process of the planet? I actually realy enjoyed Al Gore's movie but the problem I had with it is that he seems to think that humans are aliens and doesn't take into consideration that we are a natural species on this planet and that the things we do is indeed natural. Everything we make or do is natural. An airplane isn't from Europa, it came from the Earth's natural materials. So perhaps it can be said that humans are the link for the next ice age to start, for the cleansing and balancing of Earth.


okay...yes global warming is a natural process, but i do not know how anyone can deny the fact that humans are speeding this process up at a rapid pace.

man makes all sorts of unnatural things. sure they are made from things that come from the earth, but that does not mean they are natural.

the human species is out of control. we are like a cancer to the earth. that does not mean we are aliens, it just means that something has gone horribly wrong and we are destroying the place that sustains our lives (just like cancer).


Are we really doing it that much anymore? There is much much less CO2 emmissions in the atmosphere then there was 200 years ago when Industry first started. There are more trees in the US then there were in 1920. Gas prices are extremely high so everyone who doesn't make 100k a year are buying cheaper and better gas to the mileage cars. I think things are being done to help "save" the planet without anyone even realizing it. I saw that Al Gore in the movie was talking about how they can measure the amount of CO2 in the past be using the ice in the polar caps. I don't see how that could possibly be accurate. For one thing Antarctica wasn't cold before 10 or 20 thousand years ago which was the last major ice age. The poles switched sometime after the Great Pyramids were built which could have created a major warming or cooling period, and I believe there was a minor ice age during the Midevil times.

Al Gore even said that there isn't alot that has to be done as long as everyone makes a small effort and I think that's already happening whether we are trying or not. At least in North America and the UK. Sure the rainforest is being cut down which is a big problem but that's not anything the US or UK could do. We can't tell poor people to stop slashing the rainforest down and to stop farming it because they are doing it to survive. It's those countries resposibility to stop it and we have no say in it.


my head is spinning after reading this so i am not even going to pick apart your entire statement. you obviously are in a state of denial about what is going on and how much man has destroyed. take a look at the population of the world.it grows exponentially. think about how many more cars are out there on the road. think about all the huge plasma TVs that have become a must have in america. just because people are poor does not mean that there is no incentives they can be given to stop harmful practices (it is actually the rich who further those things along). as far as the science you are denying, who are you to say it is not credible?
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ZackH
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
jusdeadphunky wrote:
ZackH wrote:
jusdeadphunky wrote:
ZackH wrote:
Isn't global warming a natural process of the planet? I actually realy enjoyed Al Gore's movie but the problem I had with it is that he seems to think that humans are aliens and doesn't take into consideration that we are a natural species on this planet and that the things we do is indeed natural. Everything we make or do is natural. An airplane isn't from Europa, it came from the Earth's natural materials. So perhaps it can be said that humans are the link for the next ice age to start, for the cleansing and balancing of Earth.


okay...yes global warming is a natural process, but i do not know how anyone can deny the fact that humans are speeding this process up at a rapid pace.

man makes all sorts of unnatural things. sure they are made from things that come from the earth, but that does not mean they are natural.

the human species is out of control. we are like a cancer to the earth. that does not mean we are aliens, it just means that something has gone horribly wrong and we are destroying the place that sustains our lives (just like cancer).


Are we really doing it that much anymore? There is much much less CO2 emmissions in the atmosphere then there was 200 years ago when Industry first started. There are more trees in the US then there were in 1920. Gas prices are extremely high so everyone who doesn't make 100k a year are buying cheaper and better gas to the mileage cars. I think things are being done to help "save" the planet without anyone even realizing it. I saw that Al Gore in the movie was talking about how they can measure the amount of CO2 in the past be using the ice in the polar caps. I don't see how that could possibly be accurate. For one thing Antarctica wasn't cold before 10 or 20 thousand years ago which was the last major ice age. The poles switched sometime after the Great Pyramids were built which could have created a major warming or cooling period, and I believe there was a minor ice age during the Midevil times.

Al Gore even said that there isn't alot that has to be done as long as everyone makes a small effort and I think that's already happening whether we are trying or not. At least in North America and the UK. Sure the rainforest is being cut down which is a big problem but that's not anything the US or UK could do. We can't tell poor people to stop slashing the rainforest down and to stop farming it because they are doing it to survive. It's those countries resposibility to stop it and we have no say in it.


my head is spinning after reading this so i am not even going to pick apart your entire statement. you obviously are in a state of denial about what is going on and how much man has destroyed. take a look at the population of the world.it grows exponentially. think about how many more cars are out there on the road. think about all the huge plasma TVs that have become a must have in america. just because people are poor does not mean that there is no incentives they can be given to stop harmful practices (it is actually the rich who further those things along). as far as the science you are denying, who are you to say it is not credible?


Your head is spinning because of your arrogancy. Of course humans are the problem because we are such a huge threat to the earth. It's not denial, it's being realistic that the Earth has had warming and cooling periods regardless of human interaction. It's your arrogance thinking that humans are the cause and savior of every little thing. I am saying it's not credible because of research. Of knowing that you could hardly get any accurate data from ice in antartica because it hasn't been ice since it was created. There are warming periods and cooling periods, that means ice will sometimes be melted away and become new, how can you possibly accuratly say how old ice is? There have been Mammoths found completly frozen with plants still in their mouths. I saw a special on Egypt on how it talks about how the three largest pyramids are in the exact same position of Orion's belt and that it is suspected that they were actually placed under Orion's belt, but that's not the case anymore because sometime after the poles completly shifted.
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exton
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZackH wrote:
Isn't global warming a natural process of the planet?


Of course. It has clear naturalistic causes, and is the result of clear naturalistic processes.

It is *also* largely human-driven.

It's important to keep in mind: "natural" is not synonymous with "good" or "okay".

If the planet is doing something that is bad for us (and global warming IS bad), well, guess what? Fuck nature. This is our planet. I'll be damned if the ice caps are going to melt on my watch.
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exton
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZackH wrote:


Are we really doing it that much anymore? There is much much less CO2 emmissions in the atmosphere then there was 200 years ago when Industry first started.


The data i've seen indicates otherwise.

Do you care to show us where you're getting your information?

Quote:

There are more trees in the US then there were in 1920.


That's true.
But trees aren't the most important photosynthetic life form.

Algae is. Most of the oxygen is produced by (and most of the co2 is absorbed by) algae in the ocean.

And guess what's going to get seriously fucked up when the ice caps melt?
Yep, the ocean. No one really knows what's going to happen to the ocean ecology. But if it turns out to be bad for the algae, then it's really bad for us.

Quote:

Gas prices are extremely high so everyone who doesn't make 100k a year are buying cheaper and better gas to the mileage cars.


You've seen nothing yet.

In the decades to come, the prices will continue to rise, and wars over who controls oil will escalate.

Ceasing the use of oil isn't just about cars and gas mileage - it's about the future of civilization.

Quote:

I think things are being done to help "save" the planet without anyone even realizing it. I saw that Al Gore in the movie was talking about how they can measure the amount of CO2 in the past be using the ice in the polar caps. I don't see how that could possibly be accurate. For one thing Antarctica wasn't cold before 10 or 20 thousand years ago which was the last major ice age. The poles switched sometime after the Great Pyramids were built which could have created a major warming or cooling period, and I believe there was a minor ice age during the Midevil times.


That there's a lot of pseudoscience, son. I'd recommend that you get a lot of textbooks, and read them. Soon.

Quote:

Al Gore even said that there isn't alot that has to be done as long as everyone makes a small effort and I think that's already happening whether we are trying or not. At least in North America and the UK.


But not in china. Guess what they use for their electricity and manufacturing needs? Coal.

Yeah, coal.

India, too, is an issue, although im not sure what their situation is.

And in the US and UK, we still use too much oil, and not enough is being done about it.

Quote:

We can't tell poor people to stop slashing the rainforest down and to stop farming it because they are doing it to survive. It's those countries resposibility to stop it and we have no say in it.


Uhh, in that it has to do with the well-being of all life on earth, we actually DO have a say in it.

(the importance of rainforests is actually more due to ecological diversity than co2 scrubbing, but they're important none the less)
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ZackH
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
ZackH wrote:


Are we really doing it that much anymore? There is much much less CO2 emmissions in the atmosphere then there was 200 years ago when Industry first started.


The data i've seen indicates otherwise.

Do you care to show us where you're getting your information?

Quote:

There are more trees in the US then there were in 1920.


That's true.
But trees aren't the most important photosynthetic life form.

Algae is. Most of the oxygen is produced by (and most of the co2 is absorbed by) algae in the ocean.

And guess what's going to get seriously fucked up when the ice caps melt?
Yep, the ocean. No one really knows what's going to happen to the ocean ecology. But if it turns out to be bad for the algae, then it's really bad for us.

Quote:

Gas prices are extremely high so everyone who doesn't make 100k a year are buying cheaper and better gas to the mileage cars.


You've seen nothing yet.

In the decades to come, the prices will continue to rise, and wars over who controls oil will escalate.

Ceasing the use of oil isn't just about cars and gas mileage - it's about the future of civilization.

Quote:

I think things are being done to help "save" the planet without anyone even realizing it. I saw that Al Gore in the movie was talking about how they can measure the amount of CO2 in the past be using the ice in the polar caps. I don't see how that could possibly be accurate. For one thing Antarctica wasn't cold before 10 or 20 thousand years ago which was the last major ice age. The poles switched sometime after the Great Pyramids were built which could have created a major warming or cooling period, and I believe there was a minor ice age during the Midevil times.


That there's a lot of pseudoscience, son. I'd recommend that you get a lot of textbooks, and read them. Soon.

Quote:

Al Gore even said that there isn't alot that has to be done as long as everyone makes a small effort and I think that's already happening whether we are trying or not. At least in North America and the UK.


But not in china. Guess what they use for their electricity and manufacturing needs? Coal.

Yeah, coal.

India, too, is an issue, although im not sure what their situation is.

And in the US and UK, we still use too much oil, and not enough is being done about it.

Quote:

We can't tell poor people to stop slashing the rainforest down and to stop farming it because they are doing it to survive. It's those countries resposibility to stop it and we have no say in it.


Uhh, in that it has to do with the well-being of all life on earth, we actually DO have a say in it.

(the importance of rainforests is actually more due to ecological diversity than co2 scrubbing, but they're important none the less)


Alright, i'll be more thorough and give examples if i can find them. A lot of stuff that i mentioned are things i learned months ago from researching topics a while back or watching on the History Channel.
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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZackH wrote:
Alright, i'll be more thorough and give examples if i can find them. A lot of stuff that i mentioned are things i learned months ago from researching topics a while back or watching on the History Channel.


so...you are making shit up. just as i suspected.
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jusdeadphunky
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZackH wrote:


Your head is spinning because of your arrogancy. Of course humans are the problem because we are such a huge threat to the earth. It's not denial, it's being realistic that the Earth has had warming and cooling periods regardless of human interaction. It's your arrogance thinking that humans are the cause and savior of every little thing. I am saying it's not credible because of research. Of knowing that you could hardly get any accurate data from ice in antartica because it hasn't been ice since it was created. There are warming periods and cooling periods, that means ice will sometimes be melted away and become new, how can you possibly accuratly say how old ice is? There have been Mammoths found completly frozen with plants still in their mouths. I saw a special on Egypt on how it talks about how the three largest pyramids are in the exact same position of Orion's belt and that it is suspected that they were actually placed under Orion's belt, but that's not the case anymore because sometime after the poles completly shifted.


anything you are trying to disprove with ice caps and bla bla bla does not matter because you completely miss my point, which if i haven't already made it clear, here goes:

-yes there are natural patterns of the earth heating and cooling. the process involved in this takes centuries to millenium. what is happening to the earth today is man is speeding the warming process up. okay...we are in agreement?

-HUMANS DO NOT HAVE TO POLLUTE AS MUCH AS WE DO. we have the technology to make most things we use extremely energy efficient. we have the knowledge on how to dispose of chemicals so as to not harm the environment. we have the technology to recycle harmful chemicals coming out of smokestacks and dispose of them properly. we have the technology to make it so the majority of our daylight energy needs can be sustained by non polluting solar energy. we have cars that get 60 mpg, oil can be made from coal (which is more renewable than oil which takes millions of years to create)using clean coal technology. the knowedge is there on how to manage resources and land.

-what is listed above is just the tip of the iceburgh so to speak about what can be done to save the earth. why isn't this being done? because it will cost the corporations which we are all slaves of money in the short term.
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ZackH
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
jusdeadphunky wrote:
ZackH wrote:
Alright, i'll be more thorough and give examples if i can find them. A lot of stuff that i mentioned are things i learned months ago from researching topics a while back or watching on the History Channel.


so...you are making shit up. just as i suspected.


Alright: Pole shift theory http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-pole-shift.htm

It is suspected that the last pole shift was over 790,000 years ago. I made a mistake and said during Egyptian times, unfortunatly the special i saw on the History channel was a year ago and I might have been wrong. I can admit it when i'm wrong.

The mammoth thing i was wrong about again, i thought it was in antartica but it was in Siberia. Still something had to have frozen the mammoth in seconds for it to die with plants still in its mouth and to be perfectly preserved. Hence an extremely rapid cooling period that happend sometime while man was in it's infancy.

I was right that the egyptians built the great pyramids in relation to orion though.

I was wrong about a lot of things, i typed it up too quickly before doing ever bit of research, I apologize.
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ZackH
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
jusdeadphunky wrote:
ZackH wrote:


Your head is spinning because of your arrogancy. Of course humans are the problem because we are such a huge threat to the earth. It's not denial, it's being realistic that the Earth has had warming and cooling periods regardless of human interaction. It's your arrogance thinking that humans are the cause and savior of every little thing. I am saying it's not credible because of research. Of knowing that you could hardly get any accurate data from ice in antartica because it hasn't been ice since it was created. There are warming periods and cooling periods, that means ice will sometimes be melted away and become new, how can you possibly accuratly say how old ice is? There have been Mammoths found completly frozen with plants still in their mouths. I saw a special on Egypt on how it talks about how the three largest pyramids are in the exact same position of Orion's belt and that it is suspected that they were actually placed under Orion's belt, but that's not the case anymore because sometime after the poles completly shifted.


anything you are trying to disprove with ice caps and bla bla bla does not matter because you completely miss my point, which if i haven't already made it clear, here goes:

-yes there are natural patterns of the earth heating and cooling. the process involved in this takes centuries to millenium. what is happening to the earth today is man is speeding the warming process up. okay...we are in agreement?

-HUMANS DO NOT HAVE TO POLLUTE AS MUCH AS WE DO. we have the technology to make most things we use extremely energy efficient. we have the knowledge on how to dispose of chemicals so as to not harm the environment. we have the technology to recycle harmful chemicals coming out of smokestacks and dispose of them properly. we have the technology to make it so the majority of our daylight energy needs can be sustained by non polluting solar energy. we have cars that get 60 mpg, oil can be made from coal (which is more renewable than oil which takes millions of years to create)using clean coal technology. the knowedge is there on how to manage resources and land.

-what is listed above is just the tip of the iceburgh so to speak about what can be done to save the earth. why isn't this being done? because it will cost the corporations which we are all slaves of money in the short term.


There is nothing that we can do that will kill the planet. Will you just be honest and say that you want to preserve humanity. Don't give me this bull shit excuse about saving the planet. The planet will take care of itself it's been doing so for 4.6 billion years. If it can take a giant comet 65 million years ago it can handle a few billion humans and some excess CO2. That is your arrogancy and your lying. Just admit that you want to preserve your own life and that you really do not care about the planet. Be realistic, you know that we are not capable of completly destroying the planet. The planet will heal and it will wipe us all out when it is good and ready.
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