Register :: Log in :: Profile :: Mail   


10 Questions that Every Intelligent Christian Must Answer
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    LVC Home // Atheism Versus Religion
Author Message
Some Chick
Not a Newbie
Not a Newbie


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 136
Location: EARTH

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:28 pm    Post subject: 10 Questions that Every Intelligent Christian Must Answer Reply with quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ
Back to top
exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 2508

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That'll convert pretty much no one. The ones who find it compelling are the ones who are already on the road (consciously or unconsciously) to rejecting such superstitions, and the ones who don't are capable of such feats of doublethink and self-deception that they'll probably never be able to use their reasoning minds to their full potential.
Back to top
Mike
Not a Newbie
Not a Newbie


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 105
Location: Roanoke, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, it didn't convert me. I'm still Christian, and my faith is as strong as ever. Christianity is not based on facts, but faith. Only through faith will the followers of God reach heaven. If you don't believe in God, fine, we'll see who's right in the end, won't we? Wink

By the way, most of these questions are answered by knowing that Christianity is based on faith, and if amputees were to regenerate limbs and the like, the existence of a higher being would be proven, which would eliminate the need for faith. As for the question of bad things to good people, God is a free resource to those who believe in his existence without question. These "good people" are either part of a divine plan, (and yes, there is such thing as a divine plan, just read about Job), or are not grounded in their belief. God shows himself to those who are ready to believe, not to skeptics. Also, the Old Testament is riddled with laws that fall under what the Jews call the "Law of Tradition". Christians do not follow these laws, because in Matthew, Jesus removed these laws. The Law of Morality was uplifted, the Law of Tradition was disbanded when Jesus sanctified the Earth. Now, I don't expect anyone to believe me, but I tell what the Christians follow, nothing more.
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 2774

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yea I was kind of convinced towards christianity, it's not a very good example.

A better one would be to point out the logical fallacy of God as christians know it existing.
Back to top
exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 2508

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:

A better one would be to point out the logical fallacy of God as christians know it existing.


That would work even less, i believe. The belief in god is completely immaterial and irrational, so you're not going to defeat it by using logic.
Back to top
Lester
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 2774

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well the video claims to speak to rational, smart christians.
Back to top
Oolon Colluphid
Not a Newbie
Not a Newbie


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 133
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mike wrote:
Well, it didn't convert me. I'm still Christian, and my faith is as strong as ever. Christianity is not based on facts, but faith. Only through faith will the followers of God reach heaven. If you don't believe in God, fine, we'll see who's right in the end, won't we? Wink

By the way, most of these questions are answered by knowing that Christianity is based on faith, and if amputees were to regenerate limbs and the like, the existence of a higher being would be proven, which would eliminate the need for faith. As for the question of bad things to good people, God is a free resource to those who believe in his existence without question. These "good people" are either part of a divine plan, (and yes, there is such thing as a divine plan, just read about Job), or are not grounded in their belief. God shows himself to those who are ready to believe, not to skeptics. Also, the Old Testament is riddled with laws that fall under what the Jews call the "Law of Tradition". Christians do not follow these laws, because in Matthew, Jesus removed these laws. The Law of Morality was uplifted, the Law of Tradition was disbanded when Jesus sanctified the Earth. Now, I don't expect anyone to believe me, but I tell what the Christians follow, nothing more.


Mike, Why do you have faith that God exists? What has givin you the idea that it is true?
Back to top
Oolon Colluphid
Not a Newbie
Not a Newbie


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 133
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
Yea I was kind of convinced towards christianity, it's not a very good example.


What about this video led you to be convinced toward Christianity?...

...Do I ask too many questions? Confused
Back to top
CryxicKiller
Known Associate
Known Associate


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excuse my expression and the mild ad hominem attack/joke, but anyone who truly believes what Mike is stating is a complete nooblette. In reality, many Christian theologians and scientists believe that there are objective facts out there in the external world that point to the existence of god. In fact, I sincerely doubt that any human does not have at least one nomological reason for believing in god; it may not be good, but it's still there. It is important to realize that, for many people, faith trumps reason, but that does not mean that they have permanently rejected reason on this issue. It just means that they use faith more, but they still use reason to some extent. In my experience, which is not necessarily indicative by itself, I've dealt with many Christians who have used reason and putative nomological facts to explain that god exists, despite the palpable observation that their faith carried more weight.

I would reply in a similar vein to exton; contrary to popular imagination, people do find reasons for believing in god. Whether or not those are legitimate is not for us to decide right now, but it is something that should be clarified.
Back to top
exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 2508

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lester wrote:
Well the video claims to speak to rational, smart christians.


Most people have a rational side, but they don't engage that side when considering religious or emotional matters.
Back to top
exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 2508

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
CryxicKiller wrote:
In reality, many Christian theologians and scientists believe that there are objective facts out there in the external world that point to the existence of god. In fact, I sincerely doubt that any human does not have at least one nomological reason for believing in god; it may not be good, but it's still there. It is important to realize that, for many people, faith trumps reason, but that does not mean that they have permanently rejected reason on this issue.


I find that many people think that they have reasons, and they can recite what they believe these reasons are.

When more closely examined, however, one finds that they don't actually have any reasons at all. What they claim to be their "reasons" are actually just half-assed justifications, lies, and non-sequiters that they use to deflect conflicting ideas without ever actually considering them.

Even when defeated rationally, these "reasons" remain and their faith is still intact, because there's nothing rational about any of it.
Back to top
CryxicKiller
Known Associate
Known Associate


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
We have to recognize that their faith often trumps reason. That's what I was saying. However, we also have to recognize that bad reasons and arguments are still reasons and arguments. They're just...bad. What I mean by this more technically: their arguments are logically valid, but nomologically unsound.
Back to top
exton
Forum Elder
Forum Elder


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 2508

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think that an idea can only be considered a reason for believing something if that idea is what leads to the belief.

That is not the case with the religious and their justifications; their beliefs do not stem from their "reasons". They believe first, and justify second. With or without their "reasons", they believe.
Back to top
Oolon Colluphid
Not a Newbie
Not a Newbie


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 133
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
I think that an idea can only be considered a reason for believing something if that idea is what leads to the belief.

That is not the case with the religious and their justifications; their beliefs do not stem from their "reasons". They believe first, and justify second. With or without their "reasons", they believe.


Very nicley put exton.
Back to top
CryxicKiller
Known Associate
Known Associate


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
exton wrote:
I think that an idea can only be considered a reason for believing something if that idea is what leads to the belief.

That is not the case with the religious and their justifications; their beliefs do not stem from their "reasons". They believe first, and justify second. With or without their "reasons", they believe.


I agree with most of this, but I take exception to the first sentence. Reason can often be used to reinforce already existing beliefs on top of, as you mentioned, inciting a belief. But it can be and is used to do both, by all sorts of people, not just religious ones. I remember that I became an atheist when I was very young. At that age, I had no idea why I did not believe in god. I sort of thought the idea was stupid, so I just didn't believe in god. Obviously that's not a good reason. Over time, I've come to acquire many arguments and reasons to defend a position that was not incited by argument and reason. Arguments and reasons should be analyzed on their own terms, which is a basic rule of doing philosophy.
Back to top
Post new topic   Reply to topic    LVC Home // Atheism Versus Religion All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13  Next
Page 1 of 13

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Add to My Yahoo! Add to Google

Politics Blogs - Blog Top Sites Politics Blogs Politics